SIBO SOS® Masterclass Library

Your next step to treating SIBO with new treatments and research updates… we have talked with the experts & asked each to explain how
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Stop guessing and take the confusion out of SIBO. You need to understand SIBO so you can get better – but it’s difficult to
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Best of SIBO SOS Masterclasses. 20 Classes. 15 SIBO Experts. Treat & Beat Even The Most Complex Cases of Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth. Instant
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The home study course for healing SIBO, a 9-step process for healing SIBO, start to finish, no guessing – the proven guide to success.
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I’m excited to share with you an all-new interview about the microbiome and your immune health with my friend, colleague, and founder of Microbiome Labs, microbiologist Kiran Krishnan!

There’s never been a more important time than now to focus on immune health… and with more than 70% of the immune system located in the gut, microbiome health is a major player in a healthy immune system.

Watch the interview now!

Kiran has also generously offered a 15% discount on any Microbiome Labs products to our community! 

Normally a practitioner is required to order directly from Microbiome Labs, but Kiran has graciously opened ordering to our community.

If this is your first order, start with this link to register as a patient, enter SIBOSOS in the patient direct code box, CLICK HERE: (this is the first step – you can’t order directly from Microbiome Labs unless you do this).

Then select the products and enter “DIGESTIONSOS” at checkout for 15% off your FIRST order. 

Hope & hugs,

sibo course

Herbal antibiotics vs. Rx, prokinetics, probiotics, and lists upon lists of low-FODMAP foods… there’s a lot to keep track of when you’re dealing with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth.

And that might be why one of the most important tools we have for SIBO doesn’t get enough credit: digestive enzymes.

This simple supplement might be the most important supplement you use for feeling good day to day and supporting overall health.

Let’s break down how, why, and when to use digestive enzymes, plus what to look for when choosing a formula. 

What Are Digestive Enzymes?

Digestive enzymes help us break down the food we eat into molecules that can be absorbed and used by our body.

I like to think of it like this: imagine your digestive system is a dishwasher and the food you eat are the dirty dishes you load into the dishwasher. Digestive enzymes are like the soap you add to the dishwasher. 

Without the soap, the water alone will be able to get the dishes somewhat clean… but when you add the soap in, the dishes come out sparkling clean.

We get digestive enzymes in two ways: our body produces some digestive enzymes on its own in the saliva, pancreas, liver and gallbladder, as well as on the lining of the intestines, and there are also naturally-occurring digestive enzymes in many foods.

The three primary digestive enzyme types are:

Protease – breaks down protein

Lipase – breaks down fat

Amylase – breaks down starches

But there are many more types of enzymes, including brush border enzymes, which are in the lining of the small intestine and include lactase, which breaks down the milk sugar lactose, and sucrase for breaking down sucrose. 

When Digestive Enzymes Go Wrong

Ideally, you should get plenty of digestive enzymes from the food you eat and your body’s own production…

But for many reasons, people are often left with inadequate digestive enzymes. These are some common reasons for inadequate digestive enzymes:

  • Stress
  • Genetic predisposition (common with lactose intolerance)
  • Crohn’s disease
  • Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI)
  • Cystic fibrosis
  • Leaky gut
  • And of course… SIBO!

When you’re lacking enzymes, you might notice:

  • Bloating
  • Gas
  • Dyspepsia (aka feeling bad when you eat)
  • Dull hair, skin, and nails
  • Fatigue
  • Undigested food in stool
  • Constipation/diarrhea
  • Food intolerances

How Digestive Enzymes Can Help People With SIBO

Digestive enzymes can benefit many – maybe even most – people, but for those with SIBO they are especially important. 

They reduce symptoms. Digestive enzymes can reduce bloating, gas, constipation, and diarrhea – some of the most uncomfortable SIBO symptoms there are.

They can help expand your diet. Many people find digestive enzymes expand their list of “safe foods” and that they can even incorporate more FODMAPs thanks to added digestive enzymes. Check out Dr. Mark Pimentel on Fiber, The Low-FODMAP Diet , and What To Eat During SIBO Treatment.

They improve nutrient absorption. Whether you’re struggling with weight gain OR loss as a result of SIBO, digestive enzymes can boost nutrient absorption, helping to naturally balance your weight.

When and How To Use Digestive Enzymes

Digestive enzymes can be used in two ways, according to Dr. Allison Siebecker, ND:

With food: Take the enzymes at the start of a meal, so they can begin to digest the food right as you begin eating it. If needed, more enzymes can be taken mid-meal or at the end. 

Without food: When taken without food, digestive enzymes have an anti-inflammatory effect. They can even have an anti-biofilm effect when taken away from food. 

Both uses can be very beneficial for people with SIBO and you may want to experiment with both.

Choosing The Right Digestive Enzyme

Understanding why and how to use digestive enzymes is the easy part… the tricky part is choosing the right product. 

Here’s what I look for:

  • Contains brush border enzymes, in addition to lipase, amylase, and protease.
  • High enough dose, because many supplements have far too low a dose to be effective!
  • Vegan and allergen free, because many supplements are made from animal products.
  • Contains activated enzymes – this is MOST important. Enzymes require activation by a cofactor. If you don’t have what the enzyme requires to be activated, it doesn’t do any good. That’s why choosing an activated enzyme is key to getting good results.

My Digestive Enzyme Pick

I’ve tried just about every digestive enzyme on the market, and Healthy Gut HoloZyme is my favorite by far.

It’s vegan, free of fillers, and has only activated enzymes. This formula is so different from other digestive enzymes, it has a patent. Plus, its effectiveness is backed by 6 pilot clinical studies.

There’s too much to list here, but if you want to see exactly how HoloZyme stacks up compared to other big digestive enzyme brands, click here and scroll to the bottom of the page for a comparison chart.

Plus, Ive negotiated a special discount just for our community: $15 off AND free shipping.

>>> Get HoloZyme here ($15 off and free shipping)

Using digestive enzymes has made a huge difference for me… and if you’re suffering with SIBO or IBS, I hope it can help you, too.

Hope & hugs,

PS – Got questions about HoloZyme? Leave a comment with your question and I’ll do my best to answer it. 

sibo course

SIBO-friendly Low-FODMAP cake

Whether it’s a birthday, a wedding, or just a day when you want to enjoy a sweet treat… can you have your cake and have SIBO too?

With this amazing cake recipe, you can!!

SIBO expert (and patient, too!) Dr. Allison Siebecker shared this recipe with me from her personal files.

I’ve even had the pleasure of eating this cake, prepared by Dr. Siebecker.. And let me tell you, it doesn’t disappoint!

I hope you enjoy this cake recipe as much as I have for your upcoming special occasions. 

Information and Substitutions

This recipe uses coconut flour. I know what you’re thinking… “But coconut flour is HIGH FODMAP!”

Remember that the serving size is the most important factor when it comes to what foods are and aren’t tolerated on a SIBO diet.

According to Dr. Siebecker’s SIBO-specific food guide, a ¼ cup serving of coconut flour is low-FODMAP and a “green food.”

This recipe calls for a total of ½ cup coconut flour… which means as long as you don’t eat the entire cake in one sitting, it will be low-FODMAP. 

For most people with SIBO, coconut flour is tolerated in servings of ¼ cup or less at a time. 

Because it is highly absorbent, you can’t easily substitute other flours – like almond or gluten-free flour blends – for the coconut flour in this recipe. If you don’t tolerate coconut flour, this recipe might not be right for you. 

One last thing… flax eggs or other egg substitutions haven’t been tested. If you try out an egg substitute, let us know how your cake turns out in the comments!

SIBO-Friendly Vanilla Cake (Low-FODMAP, Gluten Free)

Shared by Dr. Allison Siebecker, adapted from Elana’s Pantry


½ cup coconut flour, sifted 

½ teaspoon celtic sea salt 

¼ teaspoon baking soda 

6 large eggs 

½ cup grapeseed oil 

½ cup clover honey or maple syrup 

1 tablespoon vanilla extract 


In a medium bowl, combine coconut flour, salt and baking soda.

In a small bowl, blend together eggs, grapeseed oil, honey or maple syrup, and vanilla.

Mix wet ingredients into dry and blend with a mixer or hand blender until smooth.

Pour batter into lined or well-oiled muffin pan or 8-inch cake pan.

Bake at 350°F for 20 minutes or until a toothpick inserted comes out clean.

Cool completely before topping with chocolate frosting (recipe to follow).

SIBO-Friendly Rich and Creamy Chocolate Frosting

Shared by Dr. Allison Siebecker


  • 1 oz Baker’s unsweetened chocolate (previously 1 square, now 4 squares) 
  • ½ cup butter 
  • ½ cup clover honey 
  • ½ cup unsweetened cocoa powder (such as Ghirardelli or Droste) 
  • 1 tablespoon vanilla 


Melt unsweetened chocolate square and butter in a double boiler or in the microwave on low 

Allow to cool for 15 minutes, then transfer to a mixing bowl. Add the honey, cocoa and vanilla and beat until fluffy (using an electric beater or mixer). 

Notes: cooling chocolate and butter before proceeding prevents honey from dropping to bottom. 


I know how frustrating it can be to feel like all “fun foods” are off the table because of SIBO. I hope this recipe helps bring some joy to your day.

For more of my favorite SIBO-friendly recipes, be sure to download my free cookbook HERE.

Plus, be sure to register HERE for our next upcoming FREE event: The Gut & Microbiome Rescue Summit.


IBS Smart Test

Here’s something crazy:

Until recently, there was NO way to know for certain if a person had IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome).

And even if your doctor ruled out other diagnoses and landed on IBS, you had no way to know WHAT caused the IBS.

It felt like IBS was a medical mystery!

That’s why I have been so excited to share the new ibs-smart test with the SIBO SOS® Community. The ibs-smart test is a simple blood test that can definitively diagnose diarrhea-dominant and mixed IBS.

Here’s how it works:

ibs-smart tests for two antibodies (anti-CdtB and anti-vinculin) known to be elevated in patients with IBS-D and IBS-M. These antibodies are known to be triggered by gastroenteritis (AKA food poisoning), which is a key insight to help IBS, because further infections can significantly worsen your symptoms. (I’ve written about it before in this blog post.)

Find out for sure if you have IBS – and if food poisoning is to blame – with the ibs-smart test!

And even MORE good new – now you can order the test kit with an online prescription and get answers right away!

Use our Exclusive SIBO SOS® discount here —> (Price includes prescription and test, plus return shipping)

Outside the United States? Go here to get the test:

Questions? Learn more about the science behind ibs-smart in THIS blog post and by watching the interview below!

Shivan Sarna Elemental Diet Michael Ruscio

As the days pass, I’ve been thinking more and more about how to make the most of the situation we are in. 

For the first time in YEARS, I have no plans on the calendar for the next month.

No dinners, no weddings, no work functions. It’s just me, my husband, and the cats for the foreseeable future. 

Which means I have NO excuse to not start the Elemental Diet. 

What does that mean? Why would I be trying a diet right now? (It isn’t about weight loss)… and why do I think it might be the perfect time for you, too? Let me explain…

What Is An Elemental Diet?

The Elemental Diet is the only diet that can actually resolve SIBO completely, and it’s one of the most effective treatments we have available. Elemental diets starve bacterial and fungal overgrowths. They’re easy to digest, giving your gut a chance to rest and repair. And they reduce exposure to irritants.⠀

The Elemental diet is an all-liquid diet that can help repair the gut, kill bacterial overgrowth, and reduce inflammation. On the Elemental diet, you’ll drink a specially formulated blend of nutrients to get your daily calorie needs met. 

This isn’t a regular protein powder, though: the proteins in the Elemental diet are broken down into the most elemental form – amino acids. The carbohydrates in the Elemental diet are fully digested, and so it essentially contains no fiber which can be very helpful for sensitive guts.

I think of it as eating all your nutrients “pre-digested” to both completely eradicate bacteria (which feast on undigested carbs) and give your gut a much-needed break. 

3 Ways To Use The Elemental Diet 

There are 3 ways to use the Elemental Diet:

#1 Gut Friendly Meal Replacement

You can use the Elemental Diet to replace any meal with highly digestible nutrients and give the gut a break. If you’ve been looking for SIBO-friendly protein powder or meal replacement shake, this is it! 

Use as a gut-healing meal replacement shake. Elemental Heal can be safely used long term to replace 1-2 meals per day. It’s a complete meal replacement but also predigested, giving your gut a chance to rest and heal.

#2 Gut Reset: 2-4 Days 

This is an easy way to stop a flare of gut symptoms and give your gut a rest. Suggested use is to replace all meals and snacks with Elemental Diet for 2-4 days. 

#3 SIBO Healing: 1-3 Weeks

When used for 1-3 weeks, the Elemental Diet can resolve even stubborn SIBO cases. Suggested use is 1-3 weeks of replacing all meals and snacks with Elemental Diet. 

Why Now Is A Great Time For The Elemental Diet

If you decide to use the Elemental Diet as a SIBO treatment, the hardest thing about following it for  most people is fitting it into a busy schedule. 

Right now, many of us have clear schedules… which can make 1-3 weeks on the Elemental Diet perhaps feasible for the first time ever.

Even if you don’t want to commit to a full Elemental Diet, having it on hand right now makes sense. It’s a simple meal replacement that won’t flare up symptoms and make you feel worse. 

I’ve seen several people posting in the facebook group about struggling to find SIBO-friendly foods right now… having the Elemental Diet on hand means you always have something SIBO safe ready to eat.

Choosing The Right Formula For You 

Until recently, there were two options for the Elemental Diet:

  • Prescription mixes (require a doctor’s order and many taste disgusting)
  • Homemade recipes (require specific ingredients and a lot of prep work)

Luckily, SIBO expert Dr. Michael Ruscio has now developed a third option for all of us: Elemental Heal.

Elemental Heal is by far the best tasting and easiest elemental diet option… it’s a powder (in chocolate or vanilla) that you mix with a small amount of oil and water.

It’s available without a prescription, so you can keep it on hand for meal replacements and “gut resets.”

And no matter your needs, there’s an option for you:

  • Traditional, which comes in Chocolate and Vanilla
  • Whey-free, for those who don’t tolerate whey protein
  • Low-Carb, which has just 20 grams of carbohydrates per serving

These new formulations have been in the works for months, and are finally ready to ship. I’ve been looking forward to sharing this new resource with you, and the timing couldn’t be better. 

How To Learn More & Get 15% Off

Elemental Heal Ruscio coupon

I’m taking this time to focus on my health, and there has never been a better time for the Elemental Diet than right now.

If you’re interested in joining me on the Elemental Diet, I asked Dr. Ruscio for an exclusive discount for you.  Right now, the SIBO SOS® Community can get 15% OFF all Elemental Heal (including low-carb and whey free!).

→ Check out all your options here & Use code SIBOSOS-ELEMENTALHEAL for 15% OFF

Want to learn more? Watch this Q&A with Dr. Ruscio

Ken Brown Transcript

I sat down for a truly enlightening and very frank discussion on the risk of Covid-19 for people with SIBO, leaky gut, and other gut issues with double-board-certified gastroenterologist and internal medicine doctor Ken Brown. Also, the founder of Atrantil.

How will the coronavirus impact people with gut issues? What do we need to know?

Trust me when I say… this information will blow your mind!

What Dr. Brown shares is not widely known, but is absolutely critical for this community.

Please watch… here’s just a taste of what we cover:

  • How the research shows the gut plays a MAJOR role in this pandemic (Dr. Brown has spent the past 2 days reading pre-publication research)
  • 30+% of people with Covid-19 have GI symptoms – and why those who do have WORSE outcomes
  • What you need to know about ACE2 receptors, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and increased risk
  • Should you hold off on SIBO treatment right now?
  • Dr. Brown’s recommended supplements (and WHY you should use each one)
  • Why Dr. Brown has all his front-line hospital employees taking Atrantil right now

Dr. Brown has also offered our community a huge discount on Atrantil… up to 38% off and FREE 2-Day Shipping.

This is the lowest price on Atrantil available anywhere… and orders are shipping out now! 

—-> Up to 38% Off Atrantil & 2-Day Shipping FREE

Here are links to some of the products and resources mentioned in our interview:

Atrantil discount and 2 day free shipping!

Turmeric from Purathrive or Science Naturals Turmeric

Megaspore from Microbiome Labs (Get 15% off your first order with code DIGESTIONSOS at checkout – must register as a patient with Patient Direct Code SIBOSOS)

BrocElite Sulforaphane 

Ojai Energetics CBD


Shivan Sarna: Hi, everybody. Welcome to SIBO SOS®. I’m Shivan Sarna. I am here with Dr. Kenneth Brown, double board certified internal medicine physician and gastroenterologist.

He is an incredible healer. He has an extraordinarily busy practice. He takes the information that he experiences every day with his patients along with the research like from Dr. Mark Pimentel and all these brain trusts that he’s friends with. And he reads and reviews their research and then applies it in the clinic. And he then often shares his experiences in the clinic with his friends or the researchers. It’s a beautiful thing!

You may know his work from being the one who created Atrantil, the only clinically found supplement to impact bloating that is all natural and is a fascinating series of compounds—which we’re going to talk about.

The purpose of this is to educate everyone about Covid19. And he has compiled a huge list (along with his grad students) of studies about the impact on people like us who have gut issues, along with anyone who’s on the planet breathing. And we’re praying for all of everybody that they continue to breathe with ease and grace and health.

I think everyone needs to hear this, whether they have a gut issue or not.

It’s a pleasure to have you here, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much for spending some of your valuable time with us today at SIBO SOS®.

Dr. Ken Brown: Hey, Shivan, thank you so much. I mean, first of all, thank you for taking the time to do this. Thank you for reaching out to your people, your tribe. Your team has been amazing. You guys are continually trying to do this when we first set this up. Of course, it was pre-SARS-CoV-2/Covid. And now we all had to pivot. The whole world has to pivot and change. And we’re going to do that same thing.

And so, right before everybody got on, I had to run to the restroom really quick because I’ve spent all day looking at data, looking at research, doing different things. We’re all changing hour by hour. And as a gastroenterologist, I feel a moral obligation to make sure that we discuss gut health and immune health because that’s where we’re at right now.

And this is not going to be a big, heavy—what would I say? Normally, you and I would talk about my product a whole lot. I want to talk about disease states. I want to talk about what’s going on. And I know that I’m wearing the scrubs. But that’s just kind of the standard. This is what I wear to work. But I want to go wherever this wants to go. But I’ve got so much information to share—like how ACE2 receptor that’s in the lung is actually in the gut, and how over 48%, or now we’re learning that 48—I’ll take that back, 30% to 48% of people contract this through their gut, and they have gastrointestinal symptoms. I’m going to blow your mind on this one. 

I’ve been reading studies, it’s been crazy. I’ve got studies showing that we have viral shedding through your feces five weeks after they have viral shedding in the lungs.

So, why I’m so excited to talk to you is because the gut plays such a role in this pandemic and nobody’s talking about it. And this is not my opinion. This is just study after study that I’ve just been trying to digest. A lot of it is happening from what we’ve learned in China. We’re just starting to get some data.

Dr. Ken Brown: I have this incredible graduate student who is a patient of mine. She is a nurse. She went on to get her certified nutrition degree. And her and I collaborate all the time. Her name is Angie Kirk. And I want to have a shoutout to her…She is amazing! This is a list that she has compiled for me in our Mendeley account called coronavirus related to some sort of GI thing or related to polyphenols and different things.

Shivan Sarna: What’s a polyphenol before we move on because it’s so basically important. 

Dr. Ken Brown: A polyphenol is what makes vegetables colorful. But Shivan, the stuff that I got will blow your mind.

Shivan Sarna: Okay, bring it on!

Dr. Ken Brown: It’s so funny how you go from, “Oh, I’ve got this really good job. I’ve got a couple companies” to “We have to save lives!” I mean, we can’t just sit here and panic. What started out about SIBO, everybody that has SIBO, you’re at risk. Let’s start with that. We need to fix that. Everybody else that doesn’t have SIBO… we’ve got some really cool things.

So, it’s a dark period that I’m going to tell you about how many people are being affected and then I’m going to end with the fact that there is hope. And research. 

The problem is these are stressful times. I don’t want to make it more stressful. We know that if you can reduce your stress mentally, physically, any way you can do it, we know that stress affects the gut. There’s the brain-gut access. And if we can help your audience learn how to do that, then we will protect our first line of defense… which is the gut.

Shivan Sarna: Share with us some practical solutions and tell us about some of the evidence. First and foremost, when I hear you say that, if someone has small intestine bacterial overgrowth—which is the number one underlying cause of IBS (and I’m going to cover a couple of definitions that half the audience already well knows because I’m hoping to really get this to a huge audience of people who are not really overly familiar with this gut condition)—if you have an issue with your gut, maybe it’s diverticulitis, it’s H. pylori, it’s constipation, you don’t know why, what is it that we need to be doing to help us to reduce our risk of exposure and maybe a little bit about the mechanism about why.

They say all disease begins in the gut… therefore, all healing begins in the gut. But why is that gut connection so particularly important. And we don’t need to get into this, but the other part of my brain is like, “And why is no one talking about it?” 

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh, I shouldn’t be touching my face. Sorry! Every time we get on a Zoom call, I realize how much I touch my face.

Shivan Sarna: Sit on your hands. Sit on your hands. No seriously, sit on your hands literally.

Dr. Ken Brown: All of those questions are right up there with “what is the meaning of life… why are we here?” because what you’re actually describing are very complex questions.

Shivan Sarna: Do your best.

Dr. Ken Brown: Alright, let’s see where we ‘re going.

Shivan Sarna: Bring it on! Bring it on.

Dr. Ken Brown: Well, I’m going to start with this. We now realize that 30% to 48% of people diagnosed with Covid19 have gastrointestinal symptoms. This is something fairly new that we did not realize. And now China is publishing data. Here’s something really scary, those that present with gastrointestinal symptoms, 28% being diarrhea, they have a worse outcome.

So, we know that if you contract this virus through your gut, you have a higher likelihood of having a bad outcome.

I’m talking about cutting-edge stuff, I’ve spent the last two days reading pre-publication research because my graduate student is able to find things that nobody else can find.

So, what I’m talking about is all backed by science. It’s all backed by studies. I am so passionate about this that I feel like everything that we’ve done has led up to this where I feel like we can change things.

Shivan Sarna: Okay. Bring it on in terms of everyone’s wanting to know how can we get it more easily than somebody else?

Dr. Ken Brown: It appears that the virus binds to what is called an angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. ACE2 receptors are predominantly in the lung, stomach and duodenum. They’re the most common places where these are on the cells.

So, if the ACE2 receptor is there, and if the virus is taken in orally, then it will bind to the ACE2 receptor.

If you happen to have underlying conditions like hypercholesterolemia or you have high cholesterol, you will have more ACE2 receptors because, as it turns out, they get up-regulated with two things—high blood pressure and high cholesterol.

Now, high cholesterol is something nobody’s talking about because we found an article that talked about lipid rafts. And what that means is that the virus, when it binds to the ACE2 receptor, has to be taken into the cell so that it can replicate.

Those people that have these co-morbid conditions, meaning that if you have underlying diseases like hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and diabetes, you are more likely to get infected because it’s easy to get there.

As it turns out, the stomach and duodenum have equal amounts, or at least we think, of ACE receptors as the lungs. So people have completely forgotten that the gut is there.

Now, the reason why I am really aggressive treating my SIBO patients and warning them about this—washing hands, cautious about eating out and all these other things—is because we know that SIBO actually will produce a protein zonulin which will create a leaky gut. So, if you have intestinal permeability and leaky gut, that will allow easier entrance of this virus.

In addition to that, what will happen is that your immune system gets turned on. When your immune system gets turned on, it’s fighting SIBO which allows the virus to come in the back door.

That’s why it’s so relevant that you’re doing this particular thing. And we talked about trying to incorporate this—not only is it so easy to incorporate, it’s completely relevant, absolutely relevant, that we discuss this. Your gut is your first line of defense. You’re always taking in the outside environment. And as you’re taking the outside environment, then you have to be able to defend it. And if your gut is already compromised, I’m worried about my SIBO people, I’m worried about my IBD people, and I’m worried about all these things.

Shivan Sarna: So, what are some of the things that we can do? Maybe some people have some Allimed at home—which is the garlic, allicin extract. A lot of people I think have some DIY herbs at home that they can maybe pull out and start treating their SIBO. Does that make you more vulnerable? What about die-off?

What is it in polyphenols (which could you define for me please)? How is that impacting people who are trying to fight the virus—which is everybody?

Dr. Ken Brown: Before we end this, I will give you my gastroenterologist’s take on what supplements to do for this.

Shivan Sarna: Great! Okay, great.

Dr. Ken Brown: Okay, knowing that your first line of defense is your gut, let’s talk about something that is really important that everybody has. You need to take in zinc.

Zinc is a mineral that is really important for your immunity. What people don’t understand is, when you take an oral zinc—we know that zinc lozenges and things like that have antiviral activity. Nobody’s really talking about why. Let’s talk about why really quick.


Dr. Ken Brown: As it turns out, zinc has to be absorbed into the cell. Once it’s absorbed into the cell, it becomes intracellular zinc. Taking zinc doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to get it in the cell. To get it in the cell, you need something called an ionaphore, a vessel that allows something to get through.

So, the cell is impermeable to standard zinc. It needs something to help it, which in philosophy, is very common because you always need some transporter to get it in.

Now, let’s shift gears and talk about polyphenols. Polyphenols are these complex, beautiful molecules that make vegetables colorful. It’s what makes fruits and vegetables colorful. It is the most prominent thing in the Mediterranean diet.

So, that being said… holy cow, I found a study that shows the polyphenols work as an ionaphore, meaning they drive zinc into the cells. So then you go, “Well, what does that do?”

What zinc does when it’s intracellular, it turns off the RNA polymerase enzyme in SARS-CoV2.

Just to clarify for everybody… it’s impossible not to make this just a total Covid-type thing. Covid is the disease. Covid19 is the disease. SARS-CoV2 is the virus. Corona is the family of viruses. I believe that one of the problems from the very beginning was the media described it as the “coronavirus.” They did not differentiate that it was a novel coronavirus. What that means is corona is the family. SARS-CoV2 is this new, super virulent virus. It is a thousand times more infectious than SARS-2003. And the way that people are dying is 1) the way that the influenza kills us which is it attacks the lungs and 2) it has a similar effect as the Spanish Flu of 1918 which creates a cytokine storm.

This is no joke. I’m extremely passionate about this right now. I’m going to make sure that everyone is informed.

So, SARS-CoV2, when I say that, we’re talking about the virus. When I say Covid19, that’s after you’ve been infected—very similar when it was HIV or AIDS.

Shivan Sarna: Got it!

Dr. Ken Brown: Okay. So, what we know is that when zinc is in the cell, if the virus can get into the cell, zinc blocks the enzyme that allows it to reproduce or allows it. So, the virus gets in the cell, and it goes into the ribosome (which is where the cell does this), and then it hijacks the cell. As far as the parasite, it is the most fantastic parasite. This particular virus takes over your cells. That’s what ends up happening.

So, long-winded explanation of why you need intracellular zinc, one way to get it is to eat polyphenols. Have a colorful plate… very colorful plate.

We know that the molecules in Atrantil are polyphenols. But I don’t really want to talk about that. I want to talk about how to prevent getting this, how to make sure that you protect your immune system. And so I hope you don’t mind that we’re going to get a little off topic of SIBO.

Shivan Sarna: Oh, my gosh, no! This is a holistic conversation.

Dr. Ken Brown: Okay, cool.

Shivan Sarna: This is holistic, okay? We’re mind, we’re body, we’re spirit, we’re gut, we’re lungs… we’re everything.

Let’s say we were to take a supplement of zinc—because I know a lot of people have little bottles of zinc at home. They have like the Cold-EEZE lozenges and that kind of thing), is there a particular form if they were doing it in isolation that would help?

Dr. Ken Brown: Wow! I am not an expert in that. I know that I did a Summit interview yesterday. And I think they had multiple experts discussing the difference between zinc gluconate, zinc glycinate, whatever. I will just say that my bandwidth is only so big.

Shivan Sarna: No, I don’t expect you to know everything. Oh, my gosh, no! I’m just wondering.

But we’ll move on because if it’s a polyphenol, if it’s your veggies, I think, yes, vitamin C in high doses is amazing. Vitamin C in an orange, we’ve always been told is more bioavailable. But you can’t eat a hundred oranges. So it’s just something to think about, getting it from a food source.

Dr. Ken Brown: Yeah, the short of it is, in case everybody has something to do—and this was repeated by the experts on the summit panel as well—what I’m doing and what I’m telling my patients to do is vitamin C, vitamin D, melatonin, n-acetylcysteine, Atrantil for gut health and… let me check my notes real quick.

Shivan Sarna: What do you think about quercetin?

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh, my! The thing about quercetin has been studied a whole lot. Quercetin is a polyphenol that is the one. So quercetin luteolin and turmeric are polyphenols that get studied all the time. They get studied all the time because they’ve already been studied.

The thing about it is that I’ve got data to show that the proanthocyanidins (which are large polyphenols), they all have similar antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal effects.

I mean, you’re going to have to prevent me from geeking out completely, but we can get into all of this. I’ve got study after study after study that I’ve been diving deep because I had no idea how much scientists, after the SARS-2003 outbreak, became an obsession of theirs to look at—they’re much more open to natural treatments.

Shivan, it’s crazy! I think we’re sitting on something that we can help naturally. We don’t need to just run immediately trying to find like hardcore drugs and stuff. I think we can actually mitigate this with diet and a few supplements.

So yes, quercetin has been studied. Quercetin has been studied in the binding of the virus. Studies have shown that it is effective in preventing the binding. It has been shown that it is protective in driving the zinc into the cell.

So, what you’re saying is it’s like saying lemon versus orange when we talk polyphenols. They’re citrus fruits. They’re complex, beautiful molecules. 

The biggest thing is when we’re talking to everyone that’s watching this, we need to have a healthy diet. And we need to make sure it’s a very colorful plate.

Now, one of the problems with SIBO people is that I have found that many of them take out some of these amazing foods out of their diet. And if you’re doing that, if you’re on a FODMAP diet, if you’re on an SCD diet, if you’re on an elemental diet, you need to feed your microbiome. You need to make sure that you can fight this thing. Those are the people that I worry about.

I was thinking about it. I talked to some Crohn’s patients and ulcerative colitis patients. And then, I started thinking, “You know, the people I’m most worried about are my SIBO people because they’re so limited in their diet. And they’re very obsessed about trying to control that.”

So, we need to make sure that that gets expanded.

Shivan Sarna: Absolutely!

Okay, one more time from the top, the alphabet of the supplements and the vitamins that you were talking about.

Dr. Ken Brown: My gastroenterology recommendations based on science—

First of all, I’m a fan of fermented foods. As it turns out, if there is a Lactobacillus plantarum or bifidobacterium, then it has been shown to be protective there.

So, probiotics in the SIBO population, I try and steer people away. I know that maybe the fermented foods. But I’m going to ask you to start doing some sauerkraut.

If you look at the data right now, Germany has one of the lowest death rates from Covid19. Why? I don’t know. Is it the beer? Is it the sauerkraut? Who knows! But we’re going to learn all this as a world. For the first time ever, the world is collaborating. People are putting science out minute by minute. Every time I wake up, I end up with 100 new articles I need to deal.

Zinc… if you are low, your immune cells will not function as well. So we need to get it intracellular. So take a polyphenol. My suggestion is a polyphenol supplement that will block that can actually drive it intracellular. This will block the enzyme that allows the virus to replicate. This has been shown in multiple studies. My recommendation is 25 mg. a day. If you take too much, then you can deplete your copper and a few other things can actually happen.

Vitamin C, everybody’s talking about this. It’s an essential micronutrient that will work as an antioxidant. Studies in humans are conflicting. So, what you’ll see is experts talk about how “in this study, it did this.” But what I want to talk about is the in vitro study. They have shown that it actually blocks, and it downregulates NRLP which is an inflammasome. An inflammasome turns on your cytokine storm. So I’m having all my patients take vitamin C.

So, my rationale to the human studies is that they did knockout mice in one study, and they showed that those mice that genetically could not produce vitamin C, when they inoculate the mice with the influenza virus, all the ones that did not have the ability to produce vitamin C had horrible outcomes and died; those that did had decreased inflammation and decreased inflammatory cytokines.

So, there is no joke. If most doctors are saying… well, the evidence is kind of out there. I’m looking at if there’s a mechanism of action, and the harm is very low, do it.

So, zinc, fermented foods, vitamin C…

Vitamin D… vitamin D is another one. In a systematic review, vitamin D appeared to protect individuals from acute respiratory infections. Vitamin D is expressed on all immune cells, B- and T-cells. And it can modulate the innate and adaptive immune responses.

Low levels are associated with increased autoimmunity and increased infection rates.

So, no-brainer here, vitamin D is super important. And at least 1000 mg. a day. On Chang’s report yesterday, a lot of these functional medicine doctors were talking more than that.

And then, I’m trying to encourage my patients to eat a diet high in phytosterols. And this is super wild. Phytosterols are plant molecules that look a lot like cholesterol. And there may be some evidence that it will tie up the lipid raft at the ACE2 receptor. [30:07]

Dr. Ken Brown: Evidence has been shown in vitro. These are not human clinical trials. The problem that we’re running into right now, Shivan, is that this is a novel coronavirus. This is something that has never hit us since the 1918 flu. And we’re dealing with this hour by hour. And people are gathering data.

And some researchers have shown that if you eat a lot of legumes, some grains, fruits and veggies—we keep getting that to the same thing, fruits and veggies. So the fruits and veggies may plug the ACE2 receptor so that the virus has no place to attach.

The recurring theme here is… healthy diet, healthy gut, healthy protection.

And then, n-acetylcysteine has some mucolytic properties. In a meta-analysis in 2017, they found that treating patients with n-acetylcysteine led to shorter duration stays in the ICU with ARDS patients (patients that have severe acute respiratory disease in their lungs).

And right now, Chinese hospitals are using n-acetylcysteine as a standard protocol for this. I like it a lot because what it does is it increases glutathione levels. The glutathione is a potent antioxidant, so it prevents the cytokine storm.

Alright! Fermented foods, zinc, vitamin C (reasons above), vitamin D, a diet with a lot of fruits and vegetables, nuts, n-acetylcysteine and then two more things…

Melatonin, it’s a potent antioxidant, but those researchers that are going, “Why don’t kids have a bad outcome from this? Why are kids spared?” One of the theories is that kids have a much higher melatonin level naturally than older adults.

I looked deeper into this. As it turns out, melatonin also blocks this NLRP3 inflammasome. So, kids 1 to 5 have huge levels of melatonin. And it may be that the melatonin blocks the cytokine storm. So take melatonin.

And then, the final thing which nobody seems to be talking about is something called sulforaphane. Sulforaphane, this is my new favorite thing.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick who’s a PhD that I follow occasionally, she did a lot of research on this. Cruciferous vegetables in the sprout form—not in the big plant form, in the sprout form—have super high levels of a molecule called sulforaphane.

Sulforaphane turns on a pathway called the NRF2 pathway. You don’t have to remember that. All you have to remember is this, that the NRF2 pathway is a potent modulator of inflammation and anticancer. It also crosses the blood brain barrier to decrease neuroinflammation.

So, I was listening to a lecture by a Johns Hopkins professor. It was discovered by Johns Hopkins in 1992. His group of doctors, they figured this out. Then they discovered the NRF2 pathway. And then, all of a sudden, he started talking about the antimicrobial effects of sulforaphane.  

I’ve been using it in my SIBO people—Atrantil + sulforaphane. It’s some product called BrocElite. I’ve met with their scientists. I’ve met with their CEO. Super cool stuff!

And once again, it all comes down to science. I’m willing to try a whole lot of things on people, on myself. Everything gets tried on myself first, by the way. So, in case anyone’s wondering, I’m on all this. My patients are on all this. My family’s on this. And hopefully, we are being protected here.

So, that’s my magic combo. So, one last time… fermented foods, zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, a diet high in phytosterols (which are nuts and healthy foods… just eat healthy is what I’m basically saying), n-acetylcysteine, melatonin, and of course pages and pages and pages on the effects of how polyphenols affect this particular thing. If you do not have a healthy gut, you will be at risk. So that’s my thing. The polyphenols, you can get it in a lot of different ways, eat a lot of food. 

Shivan Sarna: I have a couple of questions before we move on. So, sulforaphane… that’s like the whole broccoli seed thing? Is that correct or wrong?

Dr. Ken Brown: No, it’s wrong. So, what it is… is that sulforaphane is a molecule that is produced when you masticate. When you crush the broccoli sprout, an enzyme called myrosinase comes in and converts glucuronidase  into sulforaphane.

Shivan Sarna: Cool!

Dr. Ken Brown: So, up until just now, like just recently, there’s a ton of broccoli sprout products. Johns Hopkins did a whole study where none of them had sulforaphane. A few of them have put glucuronidase with the enzyme, myrosinase, to hope that it happens. But then they realize that it’s not actually happening.

So, I was so excited when I was contacted by the CEO of this company, BrocElite. And he’s like, “We’ve got data.” I’m like, “Get me on with your scientists.” So I did a Zoom just like this. You know what?

Dr. Ken Brown: The reason why he contacted me is because his scientist discovered that our polyphenols help their product get better absorbed.

Shivan Sarna: What?!

Okay, listen, we need to know what a polyphenol is. And then, for people who have not heard you before, I want you to do a two-minute version of how you created Atrantil because this is so important. I know a lot of people don’t know that story.

But what’s a polyphenol? This is what is in wine. This is what creates colors in food, right?

Dr. Ken Brown: Polyphenols are molecules in nature that are natural. They are the molecules that make vegetables and fruits colorful. They are the molecules that are predominant in the Mediterranean diet.

The science of polyphenols is just now getting off the ground. We now realize that polyphenols are these large, beautiful molecules that our own microbiome breaks down into something called postbiotics.

Postbiotics are the anti-inflammatory, anti-aging molecules that the Mediterranean diet is.

We have been ignoring this. The three ingredients in Atrantil are cabracho (which is a very large polyphenol called a Proanthocyanidins), horse chestnut (which is also a polyphenol. Well, horse chestnut has some saponin components to it. And there are reasons why. I would discuss that), and then peppermint (not peppermint oil, but peppermint leaf, because when you get the oil, you’re taking a lot of these natural polyphenols out).

So, polyphenols are the reason why vegetables are healthy for you.

Shivan Sarna: Okay, that sums it up! That’s perfect.

Shivan Sarna: And think about, if we’re talking about color, chlorophyll is what makes plants green. Chlorophyll is so similar to human blood. This is what we’re talking about here. Why do you eat the rainbow, all of that…

Dr. Ken Brown: That’s so great! Several blogs written about just eat a rainbow every day, and you’re going to be healthy.

Shivan Sarna: Love that! You know, I’m a huge fan of veggies.

And it’s hard if you have SIBO, don’t get me wrong.

Dr. Ken Brown: Okay, so let’s just shift gears really quick and talk about SIBO really quick.

So, what I’m shifting to right now is I’m telling my patients, I’m like, “I feel like we’re doing a disservice by you eating this FODMAP diet. It makes you feel better. But we’re not increasing your microbial diversity. So Eric Rieger and I have a podcast called the Gut Check Project. We did a whole show on short chain fatty acids. And we did it specifically on how, if you have a narrow diversity, you can produce more acetate and propionate and lactate… which increases blood-brain permeability.

So, now all of a sudden, we’re starting to put the science to the symptoms. When patients come and see me, and they’re like, “I got really sick five years ago. And every time I eat, I bloat. But more importantly, I have a foggy brain. I’m anxious now. I’ve got these panic attacks.” I can tell them, “I believe that you have increased your lactate production due to a lack of microbial diversity.”

So then we need to have this hard conversation: “I’m going to ask you to be bloated for a little bit. We’re going to treat you for SIBO. But we’re going to put your ego on the shelf, and we’re going to try and get your microbial diversity broader, so that you can start producing different short chain fatty acids like butyrate, which has been shown to heal the gut, which has been shown to close these intestinal barriers, stop leaky gut, stop leaky brain.”

So, I’m telling a lot of my patients now I know. And now, six months, seven months later, they’re like, “This is the best I felt. I was miserable!” And I played the game of FODMAP, SCD… and I’ll play it while we’re trying to treat. But at some point, we’re doing more harm long-term by trying to treat your bloating than we are with trying to treat your total body.

Shivan Sarna: So, several things I got so exhausted from being on a restricted diet, especially as a vegetarian—I’m still a vegetarian happily. But I just was like, “Screw it! I’m going to be bloated.” And then, I did start to feel better.

But there is a time and a place for it. If you’re going on vacation maybe, you don’t feel like bloating. If you’ve just had a flare, you want to bring that flare down.

These are just my experiences and observations.

And then, the other thing is… everything you just said is so exciting to me because if we do look at food as medicine, then you’re going to maybe have a little bit of a side effect here and there. That’s actually a good thing because the bloating can be a side effect of the medicine you’re taking… which is eating good rainbow foods.

Dr. Ken Brown: I had a plant-based doctor on my show… super brilliant guy! And we discussed that. And he said, “I’ve been trying to integrate this with my patients.” But the problem that we as humans do, especially people that are trying to take control of their lives—and I’m it, I am the example of an extremist. If I decide to do something, it is way overboard. And I just want everybody to realize, “Hey, you can do this!”

So, right now, Shivan, after I’ve watched a few Netflix specials, I am slowly going to a whole food, plant-based diet. I’m from Nebraska. My dad was a butcher. Do you understand what this is?

Shivan Sarna: I do understand!

Dr. Ken Brown: This is a big deal. And so, I’ve decided to make sure that I have a whole food, plant-based dinner.

And then, I’m slowly realizing I don’t particularly miss meat. The first thing I did is, when I watched one of these shows, I went all out vegan, and I got all the meat substitutes and stuff… I felt miserable! I felt horrible. And then, I realized they have all these fillers…

Shivan Sarna: Yeah, the meat substitutes are really tricky. They’re not based on whole foods.


Shivan Sarna: Okay, we’re going to run out of time. And I also want to ask you about CBD because people are asking about CBD which I know you also are a huge proponent of…

Dr. Ken Brown: Huge proponent!

Shivan Sarna: …their health-positive effects or possibly preventing Covid. Let’s start with the polyphenols. And then, let’s get into the CBD. And let’s take about five minutes to do this.

Dr. Ken Brown: Alright! So, five minutes, I’m going to freak you out here. As it turns out, the polyphenols have been really looked at. And I’m just going to say the titles of the studies that I’ve been looking at because it would take three hours to get through them.

But essentially, I already talked about how the polyphenols drive zinc into the cells, how zinc blocks the mRNA polymerase that the virus uses to replicate.

So, number one, step one, you’re going to block that.

Number two, bioflavonoids. Bioflavinoids Displaying SARS-CoV Inhibition. The article looks specifically at how these bioflavonoids, which are polyphenols, actually help with that.

Number three, Overview of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Protease Inhibitors. What is a protease inhibitor? This is what President Trump was talking about they’re trying to fund. Protease inhibitors are anti-HIV drugs. And now, we realize that they can probably stop SARS-CoV2. And this article looked specifically at how powerful these polyphenols are as protease inhibitors.

Another article, Identification of Polyphenols as a Novel Chemical Inhibitor of the SARS Coronavirus Helicase. It’s showing how it’s blocking that: “Small molecules targeting severe acute respiratory human coronavirus, compounds like aescin”—what is aescin? It’s horse chestnut.

Shivan Sarna: Whoa!

Dr. Ken Brown: These people are doing my research for me. Identification of Potent Covid19 Main Protease Inhibitors from Natural Polyphenols: “An in-silico strategy unveils a hope against the novel coronavirus.” These guys looked and they showed that polyphenols block the coronavirus more than the HIV drug, Nelfinavir. Yeah… this is the kind of stuff I’m dealing with right now.

My team has agreed that we’re going to give Atrantil as a prophylactic measure to every healthcare worker in my hospital. It’s going to absolutely take us to the brink of bankruptcy, like everybody else. We have a moral obligation to do this. And I was thrilled that everybody on my team agreed!

Eric Rieger who is on the team and I are trying to set up a plan to figure out how to get free Atrantil to healthcare workers. I can show you how it blocks the virus. I can show you how it prevents it from replicating. I can show you how it helps with ARDS polyphenols. You can not take Atrantil and just eat a really great diet and probably do the same thing. But my healthcare workers that are working night shift, my nurses in the ICU, my ER doctors, my anesthesiologists who are intubating people, we’re trying to develop a whole new business plan to just hand the stuff to them.

Shivan Sarna: Oh, my gosh! Thank you. Thank you.

What you guys don’t know—just real quick, what you don’t know is that I’ve been working with Ken’s marketing team for years. And they have put together the lowest price in the marketplace for us for Atrantil. You guys are getting the first dibs on it. Perfect timing!

Dr. Ken Brown: This is why I was so excited with my team to say, “I believe so strongly in this. We have to give it away to the healthcare workers at my hospital.” We can’t give it away to everybody. If you don’t take Atrantil —quercetin luteolin, turmeric… these are all other polyphenols out there.

The issue is I will send ours to one of these researchers and say, “Analyze this. Tell me what the antiviral activity is compared to these other things.” And if quercetin is better or if risperidone is better, they’re all similar, then that would be the one that I would say, “Hey, do this if you’ve got these issues.”

I just don’t want to come off as sell-y. I want to just talk science. That’s my thing.

Shivan Sarna: Totally fine! That’s what I’m here for, is to help people get the information they need and everyone can be smart and make their own decisions.

A couple of things… if you have a lower esophageal sphincter issues, GERD, whatever, and you can’t do peppermint oil, is the peppermint leaf typically found to be more easily consumed without side effects.

Dr. Ken Brown: That is a great question! And yes, usually because the capsule gets released in the duodenum which is where we want it to go for SIBO people. Some people have complained of a little bit of reflux. I’m hearing a lot less of that because a lot of this is, they read about the peppermint, they can’t take the oils and other forms, and then they see that it’s there. We chose the leaf because it has to be digested first before the oil is actually even in effect.

And I don’t even care about the peppermint for the other reasons why they’re antispasmodic. I need those polyphenols. I need that leaf to get to your small bowel.

Now, getting back to CBD…

Shivan Sarna: Okay, wait, before you do that… they want to know are you going to run out. They’re freaking out because a lot of people are already regulars with Atrantil. Are you going to run out, one? Number two, what if you have the SIBO that is more diarrhea/hydrogen dominant. Can Atrantil help you?

I know a lot of people are new. But I know we also have a lot of people that are very familiar with your work and Atrantil. And it’s typically for people with methane-dominant SIBO. Does it help with diarrhea or hydrogen dominant?

Dr. Ken Brown: So typically—it’s interesting because my research was to try and find a solution for people that had no solution. So, when I was working with Dr. Pimentel, and we were developing Xifaxan—I was in those studies. So yeah, for people that haven’t heard, really quick, I’ve been doing clinical research for many years. And I was involved. I was the leading enrolling site for the original Xifaxan study that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. So, Mark Pimentel and I were talking. He had animal models. And I was just so fascinated by that. And then, he said one day that we will never help the bloated constipated person. I asked why. He said it’s because it’s due to a bacteria called archaebacteria that produces methane. I went, “Wow!”

And I wrote methane on the board. And then, my research manager, Brandi, came in. And she’s like, “Why do you have methane there?” I’m like, “It’s crazy! I just got off the phone with Dr. Pimentel. This is what it is.” And prior to joining me, she was helping a senator in Iowa, and they were trying to mandate that all the farmers in Nebraska and Iowa put something in the cattle feed to decrease methane.

And that’s when we started looking at these different products to do this.

So, it started out as a methane thing because that’s what was missing. And since we’ve done that, now we realize that it’s a bacteria thing, not necessarily just methane or hydrogen sulfide.

So, if you have diarrhea predominant, I still use a lot of Xifaxan in my diarrhea predominant. I use Xifaxan + Atrantil and have incredible results with my patients. So, I actually continue to do that.

The story evolves continually because then we started learning about the polyphenols. Then we started looking at anti-aging. It’s just one of those really cool things—we developed it for one thing, and now, all of a sudden, I feel like we have something that can help people in this pandemic.

Shivan Sarna: See, when good people put out a lot of efforts, and they knew you were going to be doing this mission, and then it all came together… and then, we’ve been friends for so long. It’s just a beautiful thing.

Ken, we need to wrap up in a moment. Please talk to us about your passion and why it’s so important right now in particular about CBD and this virus?

Dr. Ken Brown: Yes, thank you!

The whole thing about CBD that people don’t realize is that we all have an endocannabinoid system. In 1970 or ‘71, the Marijuana Act was put in or the Controlled Substance Act was pulled in, and then hemp was no longer used as a substance. Prior to that, we were eating CBD all the time. It was shown that a chicken fed hemp whole leaf would produce about 250 mg. of CBD.

So, since then, we have seen an uptick, a tremendous uptick, in autoimmune disease and everything. So, if anybody thinks that CBD is something that’s obscure, we were eating it all the time. We took it out of our diet. And we’ve become sicker since then.

So, the reason why I’m super passionate about this is that your endocannabinoid system is just like your gastroenterology system, your cardiovascular system, your neurologic system. It is super important. And when you, much like SIBO, go through stress, don’t sleep well, have issues… it goes out of balance. Its job is to try and keep you in balance.

So, CBD is super important right now because it mostly affects your immune system and your neurologic system. If you are stressed and not eating properly, not only is your gut out of balance, but your endocannabinoid system is out of balance.

So, what CBD does is it allows your body to produce its natural endocannabinoids to get back to balance.

There’s just as much science on this as the polyphenols I was talking about. And geek alert, the reason why I’m super into CBD is because the polyphenols allow your body to produce more of an endocannabinoid called anandamide because it blocks the enzyme that breaks it down. When you’re stressed, you produce more FAAH which is an enzyme that breaks down your own endocannabinoids. You’re literally trying to fight the world with one hand tied behind your back.

So, that’s the passion. It’s all Venn diagrams that come together.

Shivan Sarna: It’s a beautiful, beautiful lotus blossom.

Somebody’s asking about the shipping and handling. And one of the reasons why they’ve gone to Amazon—which I’m a huge fan of Amazon—to buy is because they have Amazon Prime. It’s free 2-day shipping except for—I think it’s Alaska and Hawaii. 

Shivan Sarna: I know! So, continental US.


Shivan Sarna: People are wondering about Canada. Is it available in Canada?

Dr. Ken Brown: It is available in Canada. Yes, it is. And I’m going to overstep my bounds here. We’re actually on Amazon Canada. But I want to make sure that they take advantage of your code. So contact my team on that one. I’m sure that we’ve got a way to get it though. [ < link for Canadian addresses coming soon]

Dr. Ken Brown: I’m pretty proud of the fact that I started this company, and I can focus on the science right now because my team is doing an incredible job of running the business doing this. And I’m so excited to find out what happens.

Shivan Sarna: I’m very happy about everything you’re saying… except that if you have gut issues, you’re more susceptible to Covid19.

Dr. Ken Brown: Protect your gut, protect your immune system.

Shivan Sarna: “Which CBD? There’s so many fake versions out there,” from Amir.

Dr. Ken Brown: That is one of the issues.  I teamed up with a company called Elixinol. And they produced a specific batch just for me that we have a certificate of analysis on. 

Which CBD do you want? You want to make sure that you check the boxes. You want to make sure that you get your CBD from an organic location. You want to make sure that it’s naturally extracted with CO2. You want to make sure that it has a certificate of analysis. And you want to be able to make sure that the actual milligrams are actually there.

And so, one of the reasons why I teamed up with them is that Consumer Labs did an analysis of this. They actually contacted me, Elixinol, so that we could team up and do a physician grade CBD. One of the reasons why we did this is because they could show that they checked all those boxes. And Consumer Labs did a thing. They actually analyzed and showed that for price per milligram, it was the cheapest.

So, I had what I felt was a company that I found was the best CBD at this time for the most economical price. So that’s what I’m doing.

But remember, for everyone that’s doing this, you have to think about it as, if your endocannabinoid system is deficient in your own production of endocannabinoids…Think of it like this for everybody to hear. Let’s do it GI wise. If you’re not producing enough pancreatic enzymes to digest your food, that’s the same thing as not producing enough of your own endocannabinoids.

So, what this does, what CBD does is it allows the anandamide to hang out longer. Right now, this is what the science is showing. So, all you’re doing is getting yourself back to balance. It’s not like this crazy drug or anything like that. You’re doing what your body wants.

When we talked about how to improve your immune system—vitamin D, vitamin C, n-acetylcysteine, blah-blah-blah—they all have a mechanism of action. That’s the exact same thing that’s going on with CBD. All you’re doing is getting yourself back to balance.

Shivan Sarna: I like it.

Okay! I’ve got to ask you some rapid fire questions. You know, I always do this with you.

Dr. Ken Brown: Do it!

Shivan Sarna: So, just as quick as possible with those answers. From Carleen—we love you, Carleen: “Dr. Brown, can you comment on the nurse in Kansas City who only had a fever of 99.4, lost her sense of smell and taste, was tired, but had no typical symptoms. And there are asymptomatic young people who are Covid19 positive and don’t know it. Any ideas on how to improve that situation?”

Dr. Ken Brown: Carleen, so cool that you brought that up because I think I forgot to bring that up.

Yes, so now we’re seeing that anosmia dysgeusia—which are the medical terms for “can’t smell/can’t taste,” those two terms—appear to precede all the symptoms. So, if you end up in a situation, and you can’t smell for some reason…

So, when we were looking at data from China, they came up with—

In the American College of Gastroenterology, they talked about how 38% of the people had gastrointestinal symptoms, 49% had diarrhea. They excluded the anorexia people in China. They did a study of 200 people. And that’s where they came up with the conclusion that 48% of the people had GI issues. Those people did worse. Then they looked at that… and 86% had anorexia.

So, then I took that and looked back—and this is a week ago before people have been talking about it. My graduate student and I looked at this, we’re like, “Why would they have anorexia?” And then, she found this whole article where an ear, nose, and throat doctor said, “Hey, heads up! From the UK, I’ve diagnosed multiple Covid people, and they all presented with anosmia way before they had symptoms.”

So, the answer to her is, yes, regardless of the fever, the anosmia or the lack of smell could be the canary in the minefield.

Great question! So, she’s doing her reading. That’s cool.

Shivan Sarna: Whoa! Yes, Carleen is a student for sure. She’s amazing!

Okay! Rachel has talked about how she knows how gut health affects overall immunity. Yeah, we answered your question Rachel. That was like one of the first things we talked about.

“The antimicrobial herbs often used to treat SIBO, could they actually be helpful?” She’s thinking about Candibactin-AR which has sage, oregano and thyme.

Dr. Ken Brown: So, sage, oregano and thyme are polyphenols. So, short answer without looking at the data… yes, I did find some stuff specifically for you. A couple of studies looked at allicin from garlic—but not so much against the virus. That being said, a couple of small studies.

My encouragement is, if it’s a polyphenol, take it.

Shivan Sarna: Got it! Got it, got it.

“About how much vitamin C should we be looking at for our guts and virus right now?”

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh, that’s interesting. So, when I looked at it, I was thinking 200 to 500 mg. a day. Dr. Lundqvist was on the summit with me and he does a lot of IV infusions. Keep in mind that China right now is doing IV infusions of like 24,000 mg. IV. So, what he recommended—and I will go with him because he’s done his homework on this—is 1000 mg. a day.

The problem with taking too much is it will create diarrhea, and you’ll pee it out. But not taking enough…

So, I was erring on the side of 200 to 500 mg. And then, he said that the body can handle thousands and thousands of milligrams. That was a whole Covid thing. They just brought an expert in each field to discuss Covid treatment—1000 milligrams I guess. Split it up though because you can create a significant amount of diarrhea if it doesn’t get absorbed. It works like an osmotic laxative.

Shivan Sarna: That could be good for a lot of people (depending on your SIBO situation).

Dr. Ken Brown: A lot of people do take high dose vitamin C to go to the bathroom.

Shivan Sarna: Right!

“Do you need copper to absorb zinc?”

Dr. Ken Brown: No, but too much zinc can lower your copper.

Shivan Sarna: Oh, interesting.

So Jen is saying that she’s heard—“heard,” there’s a lot of that going on right now—that someone said that if they take turmeric, it can possibly increase the cytokine storm.

And can you define what that is? People are throwing that term around like it’s confetti.

Dr. Ken Brown: Yeah, so cytokine storm is this. When you think of it like this, it’s your body’s over-reaction to the invasion. So, the virus comes in, a virus. Now, we’re talking cytokine storm with Covid19. 

It can happen when you have SIBO, leaky gut and your body overreacts to the situation that leads to autoimmune disease. That’s not a cytokine storm. That’s a cytokine season.

Cytokine storm is when your body overreacts greatly to it and releases all these cytokines. And cytokines are released from white blood cells and T-cells to try and kill it, but it’s so much that it overwhelms the body, and you end up having organ failure from your body essentially overreacting to it.

So, the cytokine storm, the Spanish Flu of 1918 was so deadly, 18- to 25-year old’s died in that one because of the cytokine storm. What makes this Covid19 horrible is that there is a percentage of people that have the lung issue where it destroys surfactant and then they can’t breathe. And then, there’s a percentage of people that have the cytokine storm.

So, what is causing it… we don’t know.

Now, regarding turmeric, I have not seen any scholarly articles related to that. We do know that turmeric and curcumin is a polyphenol that, generally speaking, your body does very well with. The absorption is quite poor. So it’s your microbiome that breaks it down into beneficial things.

I have not seen articles on that creating increased cytokine storm. But theoretically, the cytokine storm is an individual-to-individual thing. That’s what I’m thinking.

Shivan Sarna: Okay. 

“Can you take Atrantil if you have colitis?”

Dr. Ken Brown: 100%… all my colitis patients are on this. And the reason is because it does help. My combo for colitis and Crohn’s… Atrantil + CBD. And now I’m adding the BrocElite. That’s my three-combo thing. I can give science to it as to why I like all three.

Shivan Sarna: …which is what you talked about in this session.

BrocElite… does that contribute to hydrogen sulfide SIBO?”

Dr. Ken Brown: I have not looked at that. I’ll be honest. I haven’t even thought about that. I do seem to have successful results combining them because it does have antimicrobial properties. I will look more into that.

Shivan Sarna: Cool! Cool, cool, cool.


Dr. Ken Brown: Remember, if you’re a nurse or a doctor working shift work, not getting good sleep, and you’re taking care of—I mean, look at our New York doctors or our Italian doctors. These guys are our heroes, total heroes.

Shivan Sarna: Anybody in the medical profession right now, thank you.

Dr. Ken Brown: I mean, you have the guts to show up to work and be lacking sleep and tired and all this and wear masks…?

Shivan Sarna: …with bruises!

Dr. Ken Brown: I’ve seen pictures of Korean nurses where they’re getting scars from the mask!

Shivan Sarna: Ugh!

Dr. Ken Brown: You know what? They’re the heroes. That’s awesome. And if I can protect them, then we’re going to do that.

So, once Eric and I come up with that, what we will do on the front page is going to be this summary—brief summary, not geeky summary like I’m doing with you. It’s just “it does this, does this, does this…” The back page is going to be a whole reference page. So, we’ll get that to you and your tribe.

Shivan Sarna: Okay!

“Healthcare workers, what is the dosage of Atrantil for healthcare workers?” or someone who’s really looking to boost versus the two to three times a day on the bottle?

Dr. Ken Brown: Yeah, that is a great question. And my team actually asked me that. And we don’t really know. But if I’m using logic and I’m looking at this, I think that frequency is more important than dosing.

So, if I’m going to do this, then I’m going to take it frequently just in case I get exposed.

So, one of the things I say and that I’m telling all my patients is we’re now in a time where people get a little cooped up in their homes, and they want to go and dabble in that takeout, the person making your food, there is a fecal-oral route of getting this. If you’re going to eat any food that you’re bringing into your home that you did not cook yourself, that you did not wash your hands for 20 seconds before doing it, then definitely take Atrantil.

I’ve been on at least 6 tablets to 10 tablets a day now for five years. And I got my blood work checked. I’ve done this. At least in me, it has been beneficial.

So, for everybody else, I would say maybe one tablet three times a day just so that it’s there.

Shivan Sarna: You don’t have to build up to the whole bottle. That’s not what you meant. But just keep a baseline… that’s what you’re saying.

Dr. Ken Brown: The deal is, if you get exposed, you want to hit it.

Oh, in fact, vitamin D, they showed in the studies that sometimes we treat people with vitamin D with like 50,000 units once a week, that was not beneficial in preventing viral illness. Taking it daily was beneficial… which shows that it has that innate immune effect. And that’s how I’m kind of viewing this also. Take it on a regular basis.

Shivan Sarna: “Can you take Atrantil and Megaspore together?” I love Kiran!

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh! Yes, yes, yes! My man, Kiran! So, in our subscription box, that’s what I have.

I interviewed Kiran Krishnan, the CEO of Megaspore. And we geeked out on the fact that Megaspore as a sporebiotic uses these polyphenols to wake up when it gets to the colon. And then, it sends its signaling out. So, not only can you take it, we’re trying to figure out how to combine…

Anyways, I won’t get into that. That’s a business thing. But I love the combo!

Shivan Sarna: One more question, Shannon: “What can I do while lactating and treating my SIBO?”

Dr. Ken Brown: Short medical-legal answer is I can’t recommend anything.

Shivan Sarna: Okay.

Dr. Ken Brown: And I hate to say that, Shannon. I’m just sorry. It’s just that, unless something has been studied in pregnancy or in lactation—meaning that you pay to see. And one day, I hope that we have enough money in Atrantil to do those studies. But it’s extremely expensive. So, hopefully, we will be able to tell you that we can actually do that.

Shivan Sarna: …that we’ve done a study on it, yeah.

Okay. You know, Shannon, I just want to let you know that there’s a Dr. Stephanie Hayes who I interviewed for the SIBO SOS® summits. She’s out of Portland, Oregon. I don’t know if she does telemedicine. But she definitely is someone who I would reach out to to see if she does do telemedicine now. We have so many people now doing it. She specializes in the kind of question that you’re asking.

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh, that’s cool. Stephanie Hayes is her name? I’d love to connect with her because I feel bad saying we haven’t done the studies, so I can’t answer. But that is essentially what I have to say.

Shivan Sarna: She’s the one who told me about how her observations were that when people cleared SIBO and had infertility previously, they were able to conceive.

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh! Oh, okay. Let’s talk about that really quick.

So, when I did the original Xifaxan study, one of the reasons why I lost a lot of patients from the study  is that Brandi and I ended up losing patience in the study because they got pregnant during it. And every single one of them had been through fertility treatment and all that!

So, I was upset because we lost funding because the patient had to drop out. They were thrilled. We treated their SIBO… and they got pregnant!.

Dr. Ken Brown: That becomes an intention to treat analysis which means that they are considered a failure. And in my mind, there was a win.

Now, the person that developed Atrantil with me and Brandi, she took it the whole time she was breastfeeding. So if she wants, if Shannon wants to talk to Brandi, she can do that. But as a doctor, I got to say we can’t recommend that.

Shivan Sarna: Okay.

Anonymous: “Why do I bring up clear mucus from my throat several times a day. I have bloating. I’m a veggie. I’m on FODMAP and IBS diets. Also, what is it/where is it that I can find a SIBO diet?”

Well, SIBO diet, you can go to, SIBO Specific Food Guide, they’re created by Dr. Allison Siebecker is my go-to; Kristy Regan’s books on Amazon about the SIBO diets.

And then, Shivan Sarna, Random House, thank you very much… coming out next year, my book. And my diet in that is based on their work, based on Dr. Siebecker’s work. And it is vegetarian.

Here’s the deal, guys. You can always add the protein of your choice. If you’re a veggie, it’s much harder as we know. Therefore, I’m like, “Why would I do something that is easy? Or some people have done a beautiful job with it and I don’t want to reinvent their wheel.” So that’s what I did.

That’s coming out. I know it doesn’t help you right this second.

But also Dr. Nirala Jacobi out of Australia who has created the Biphasic SBIO diet based on Dr. Allison Siebecker’s SIBO Specific Food Guide, there is a vegetarian version of that. And you can also check out Rebecca Coomes, The Healthy Gut. She’s also out of Australia and has cookbooks. And I think she has her vegetarian cookbook out now too.

Okay! So, what about this mucous, coughing up clear mucus from the throat several times a day?

Dr. Ken Brown: So, keep in mind that there’s a couple of things that could relate to that.

Number one, post-nasal drip. So, post-nasal drip, when your immune system is inflamed, your histamine goes up. And if the histamine is there, then you’re going to have post-nasal drip.

Number two, if you have bloating, your small intestine distends, tells your stomach not to empty, which can lead to reflux, specifically nighttime reflux that you’re unaware of (which can also lead to post-nasal drip).

Number three, if you happen to have SIBO, there’s a high correlation of SIBO with mast cell destabilization, meaning that you’re going to produce more histamine in your body when you eat certain foods.

So, all three of those things can actually lead to that—two of them are in the gut, one of them is going to be more of an allergic-type thing. So that’s how I treat my people with mucus.

Dr. Ken Brown: Really quick (because you’re going to go off to a meditation thing), the other thing we talked about supplements, but let’s talk about lifestyle… absolutely! I mean, mindfulness meditation is what I try and practice. Make sure everyone sleeps. Get rid of toxic relationships.

Now is the time to re-evaluate and practice self-healing.

So, I love that you’re going to go do a meditation class right now.

Shivan Sarna: Well, I’ve been a yoga teacher for many, many years. I’ve been on the spiritual path a long time. I don’t know what I would do without it. But that’s me.

And there’s so many cool meditations… Oprah and Deepak are doing their meditation program for free right now. Also, Self-Realization Fellowship, I think, they have free online live meditations three times a day that you can just, through Zoom, go and meditate with them. And they also have a great site that teaches you how to meditate.

So, what is it Headspace? 

Dr. Ken Brown: Headspace.

Dr. Ken Brown: Oh, you know what? For everyone, I’m a huge fan of That’s another little life hack, I do that to go to sleep. And I do that when I want to focus. So check it out!

It essentially uses something called neural phase locking where they play music, but in the background of the music, it’s set at a certain frequency. These are all things that I’ve talked to their PhDs about. Kevin Woods is their PhD, and I just went, “Okay, I get it! You’re super smart. I’m just going to do what you say.”

What it does is they’ve shown through functional MRIs with this science that, when a certain frequency is going in here and a certain frequency in this ear—it has to be headphones—your brain will adjust. And you can adjust it to where you need it.

So, if you need to go and stimulate the amygdala for emotion and calm down, if you need to stimulate the cerebrum and increase focus, they can do that.

And I do it, my kids do it. I just think it’s really cool. And I do Headspace. I tried it in the sauna. And I will do my mindfulness meditation with that. And then, when I wake up in the morning, I turn on my Focus Brain FM. When I go to bed at night, I turn on my Sleep FM and I drift off.

So, sleep… take care of your brain. Love one another. Don’t hug! Fist bump, elbow bump, whatever it is that you’re going to do, yeah.

Shivan Sarna: We love you! Thank you so much sir. I appreciate you!

Dr. Ken Brown: Absolutely! Thank you for doing this, Shivan.

Shivan Sarna: Oh, yeah. It’s my pleasure.

More from Dr. Brown in the near future. When the smoke clears, we’d love to get you on to talk about CBD and what that means.

Look for an email guys! The lowest price in the marketplace right now for Atrantil is through the links that 

Yes, I get a little bit of a commission from it. And you know what that does? It pays people like Clarissa who’s behind-the-scenes. It pays Cyndi who makes sure that the tech is going to work for SIBO SOS®. It pays for Mariel who helps me with my copy. It helps with Lisa who makes sure that we’re all doing our jobs… because if I wanted to reach as many people as I am reaching right now, I cannot professionally do it alone. I could hack at it, and it would not be perceived or received as well because it would not be as professional (even though I’m very casual at the same time).

So, I do have a team. I have to pay them. They deserve every single cent. And I’m also very happy to be able to employ people in this marketplace at this time and economy.

So, support your local restaurants with gift certificates and the like; pre-advanced, buy some massages (so that your massage therapists can continue to feed her family or his family)… you get the idea.

We love you! Namaste. Thanks Dr. Brown.

Dr. Ken Brown: Bye Shivan. Thank you so much.

Shivan Sarna: Bye bye. Thank you. 



Links above are affiliate links which means I earn a few dollars from each sale if you use my link which supports this and future projects to ensure you have access to the expert’s latest research.

Blog Novel COVID-19 Common Sense Combined with Science - Talking with Microbiologist Kiran Krishnan - SIBO SOS

Talking about novel COVID-19 common sense combined with science.

I’m excited to share with you an all-new interview with my friend, colleague, and founder of Microbiome Labs, microbiologist Kiran Krishnan!

—> Watch above or click HERE to watch

Here’s some of what we discussed:

  • The virus cleaning protocol to follow with any packages you receive (and how to make your own disinfectant)
  • The truth about raising core body temperature
  • The pain relievers to use and avoid if you get the virus
  • Elderberry and other controversial supplements
  • What Kiran and his kids are doing

Kiran joined us wearing a robe for this interview to underscore the importance of staying home and staying relaxed.

“We want to be a little bit anxious about this. We want to be alert about this. But we don’t want to panic. Remember, panic works against the prefrontal cortex, the executive part of the brain. It negates smart decision-making. It makes you do things crazy like buying two years’ worth of toilet paper. So instead, let’s get good information, accurate information, and really understand this, so we know what our role is.”

The silver lining…

Soaps really kill this virus really well because it is something called an envelope virus. I don’t know if people have heard that term. But there are capsid virus which are made up of protein coatings. Those are way more tough. These envelope virus have a fatty acid coding. And they’re pretty weak.

So, that’s part of the silver lining of this. We’re dealing with a virus that is pretty weak. And so, it’s not very hard to kill it. Washing your hands will do that. The biggest way of transmission still is someone coming in contact with the virus with their hands, and then touching their eyes, nose and mouth and getting it into their respiratory tract. That’s how it typically is transferred.

All those packages coming into the house…

So, we could talk a little bit about if you are really practicing your social distancing like I am, you also want to be careful what’s coming into your house. We’re getting endless amounts of Amazon packages, right? We’re just ordering everything we can on Amazon. We’re not hoarding anything, but these are just regular supplies that we need. But every time a package comes in from Amazon, there’s a couple of risks.

Number one, on the outer package itself, there could be some traces of virus on it. And it could last up to 24 hours. Then, when you open the outer package, the box or the envelope, the things that are contained on the inside, whether it’s supplement bottles or food or whatever it may be, on those surfaces, there could be some virus. Whoever was packing that could have a contaminated hand, grab it and put it in your box.

The way we’re doing it is as packages come to the front door, we open the front door, I bring it on the inside of my front door, everything gets either sprayed with a 70% isopropyl alcohol and wiped down. It’s allowed to sit for about 10 seconds, and then I dry it off before I bring it all the way in the house.

Shivan Sarna: And also, he was just talking about makeup artists, brush cleaner, that’s the way you would buy it. It’s called brush cleaner. But if you can’t find that, the diluted bleach I think is good solutions. I think a lot of us already have that at home.

Kiran has also generously offered a 15% discount on any Microbiome Labs products to our community for the next 2 days. 

Normally a practitioner is required to order directly from Microbiome Labs, but Kiran has graciously opened ordering to our community.

If this is your first order, start with this link to register as a patient, enter SIBOSOS in the patient direct code box, CLICK HERE: (this is the first step – you can’t order directly from Microbiome Labs unless you do this).

Then select the products and enter “DIGESTIONSOS” at checkout for 15% off your FIRST order. 

Hope & hugs,

TRANSCRIPT – click here to download your copy.

Full transcript can be read here: 

Shivan Sarna: Hi everybody. Shivan Sarna here. Welcome to the SIBO SOS® special edition with Kiran Krishnan who is the microbiologist and the brains and the beauty behind MicrobiomeLabs. And the most famous star product there is Megaspore.

And this is a gentleman—I’ll talk about you like you’re not here in your robe for a second, Kiran. This is a gentleman who has been so incredibly kind, generous and supportive of this community that—I’m very emotional these days anyway. But I’m almost brought to tears with gratitude because of his heart, his soul and his actions. It’s great to have good ideas. But when you put them into action, that’s when I really get really lit up.

So, thank you very much for your kindness and your work, Kiran. I know you’re helping to heal people’s microbiomes all over the globe, and then teach the teachers and the trainers and the doctors so that they can then help. It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Okay! We have a lot to do today. We have some questions.

And Kiran, can you share with us from your perspective what is going on with the global health perspective? And nice robe by the way!

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. I do want to mention that because I’m wearing a robe for this interview to underscore the importance of staying home and staying relaxed.

Of course, a lot of people have to be out for work and all that. We understand that. But if you can, you should stay at home and stay put and stay relaxed as well! We want to be a little bit anxious about this. We want to be alert about this. But we don’t want to panic. Remember, panic works against the prefrontal cortex, the executive part of the brain. It negates smart decision-making. It makes you do things crazy like buying two years’ worth of toilet paper. So instead, let’s get good information, accurate information, and really understand this, so we know what our role is.

And I can’t say this with more emphasis, every single one of us plays a very important role in this. We are the reservoirs of this virus, right?

Here we have a pathogen that’s pandemic, meaning it’s spread across numerous countries. It’s clearly growing in scale in most countries that it’s in—with the exception of China and Korea. And I think Japan as well. They are starting to what they call, bend that curve. And in fact, China has gotten it down to where there’s very few new cases if any. So they’re making progress there.

But for the most part, like in the US, I think we’re doubling almost every two days. And that’s a big problem because although this is not a particularly deadly virus, like the original SARS or MRSA or ebola, it is an incredibly contagious virus. So it’s very infectious. It can spread quite widely. It can spread like the flu spreads or even more than the flu spreads. And the problem with that is the numbers just don’t work.

In a 5- or 6-month period, in the US, we can have 40 million people infected with the flu because we don’t put anything in place to contain it. And for the flu, for the most part, we don’t need to because the mortality rate is really low. The hospitalization rate is also low as well. But this particular virus is as, if not more, contagious than the flu with a 10 times higher mortality rate and five or six times higher hospitalization rate. So, it just breaks the system. That’s the big problem we’re having here.

And we’ll talk about some silver linings, but it’s a serious situation. We don’t need to be panicked, but we need to be paying attention. And every single person plays a role in this.

Shivan Sarna: And we have some general questions like what is the best disinfectant for it? How long does the disinfectant have to work to complete its killing? That’s just very practical… hand-washing. What else can we do on a daily basis?

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah! So, of course, the things that the CDC has been saying all this time, hand washing—of course, the twenty second rule with hand washing [count to twenty while washing with soap and water], using adequate amounts of soaps, that scrubbing. Soaps really kill this virus really well because it is something called an envelope virus. I don’t know if people have heard that term. But there are capsid viruses which are made up of protein coatings. Those are way more tough. These envelope viruses have a fatty acid coding. And they’re pretty weak.

That is part of the silver lining of this. We’re dealing with a virus that is pretty weak. And so, it’s not very hard to kill it. Washing your hands will do that. The biggest way of transmission still is someone coming in contact with the virus with their hands, and then touching their eyes, nose and mouth and getting it into their respiratory tract. That’s how it typically is transferred.

Now, that being said, there’s some new studies out that show that it can last in the air under ideal laboratory conditions for up to three hours. That’s likely not as high. It won’t be three hours in the real world setting where there’s more moisture, there’s heavier droplets of moisture in the air to bring it down to the ground, where there’s wind and currents and all that. But it can potentially last in the air for some time.

It does not last on things like surfaces for quite a long time, much longer than the typical flu does. For example, on metal, glass, plastic, like hard surfaces, up to 72 hours; on things like cardboard and paper, up to 24 hours. So, that’s problematic.

So, we could talk a little bit about if you are really practicing your social distancing like I am, you also want to be careful what’s coming into your house. We’re getting endless amounts of Amazon packages, right? We’re just ordering everything we can on Amazon. We’re not hoarding anything, but these are just regular supplies that we need. But every time a package comes in from Amazon, there’s a couple of risks.

Number one, on the outer package itself, there could be some traces of virus on it. And it could last up to 24 hours. And then, when you open the outer package, the box or the envelope, the things that are contained on the inside, whether it’s supplement bottles or food or whatever it may be, on those surfaces, there could be some virus. Whoever was packing that could have a contaminated hand, grab it and put it in your box.

So, the way we’re doing it is as packages come to the front door, we open the front door, I bring it into right on the inside of my front door, everything gets either sprayed with a 70% isopropyl alcohol and wiped down. It’s allowed to sit for about 10 seconds, and then dry it off before I bring it all the way in the house.

And then, the cardboard boxes and envelopes and all that, I gather them outside. And I take them right out to the recycling area. So, you want to be careful not bringing in a whole bunch of packages into your house, into your kitchen, opening everything like normal and just putting things out on your counter. Any one of one of those things could be a vector. So, you want to be like a nutty kind of person level of consciousness about this. I’m sure there are neighbors that are looking at me with the door open and I’m in my robe, and I’m sanitizing things coming out of packages. But you know, you can’t be too careful.

Shivan Sarna: So what if you don’t have isopropyl—that’s a mouthful. What if you don’t have that alcohol? I know it’s sold out in so many places? Would a bleach solution with water work?

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, bleach solution + water totally works. Ammonium chloride, most of the household cleaners have ammonium chloride in it. Quaternary ammonia is another thing you can look for.

Most of the alcohol-based solutions will work. There are cleaners with both ammonium chloride and ethanol in it.

And then, isopropyl alcohol, I actually just bought some myself, so it may be available. I actually kind of learned this from my sister. She’s a professional makeup artist. And of course, that whole world is shut down right now. But they have tons of pure isopropyl alcohol containers in the makeup area because they clean all of the makeup brushes and all that with that stuff. So, although people have gone crazy buying hand sanitizers and Clorox wipes, you might still be able to find isopropyl alcohol.

And if you find 100%, then dilute it down so you make a 70% solution—so go 30% water, 70% the isopropyl alcohol. What I bought recently was just actually 32 gallon things of 70% isopropyl delivered in like three or four days. And I just put it in a squirt bottle. And you just squirt it on stuff.

The retention time for when you clean things, you want it to sit on there for about 10 to 15 seconds. That seems to be the predominant retention time for all of these cleaners to clean and to kill off this virus.

So, as long as you’re doing something, you’re doing a good job because it’s not a particularly robust virus in terms of its stability outside of the body.

Shivan Sarna: A couple of things… Lysol, I know I’ve read alongside you, it does work. However, it is toxic to cats. So please be very careful just about that aspect of it.

Shivan Sarna: Appropriate! This is a great question because it’s so practical. What about alcohol in vodka or something? Will that work too?

Kiran Krishnan: it doesn’t seem to have high enough concentration… unless you’re drinking Everclear all day long.

Shivan Sarna: And we’re not talking about drinking it, you guys.

Kiran Krishnan: …pouring it on things. Most of your recreational alcohols will have somewhere around 30% to 40%. That doesn’t seem to be high enough to kill the virus.

Now, with a long retention time, it might. So, when it comes to disinfection, there’s two components to it. There is the concentration of the active disinfectant, and then the retention time. Any time the concentration of the active disinfectant—in this case, alcohol—is low, you need a higher retention time.

So, it’s not to say that the virus sitting in a glass of Ketel One Vodka for an hour wouldn’t be killed. It probably will, but it’s just not practical.

So, isopropyl alcohol… I’ve worked in a biosafety level 3 laboratory on HIV vaccines and other pathogenic organisms, 70% isopropyl alcohol kills everything including ebola. So, if you can get your hands on that, that’s what you should try to use.

Shivan Sarna: And also, he was just talking about makeup artists, brush cleaner, that’s the way you would buy it. It’s called brush cleaner. But if you can’t find that, diluted bleach is a good solution, since a lot of us already have that at home.

And leaving a package outside for 24 hours, Kathy, “I just don’t know how practical that is. Are you going to have somebody steal it?” I think if you can treat it… I know everybody’s got different circumstances, but that would be awesome.

Nathalie is asking about thyme and oregano essential oils as a potential virus killer?

Shivan Sarna: Yeah, the problem with it is there’s no evidence yet, right? So there is evidence of antiviral activity of numerous herbs. The problem with this particular virus is it’s called the novel CoVID19 or SARS-CoV2 because it is a novel virus. And because this is such an important situation, we don’t want to make assumptions on things, right?

So, even though some herbals have been shown to work against influenza and other viruses and have antiviral properties (even things like silver have been shown to have antiviral properties), we don’t have evidence yet that it has antiviral properties against this particular pathogen.

So, we want to go with the evidence that we have. So go with cleaners.

Listen, I’m the last guy in the world that would have these types of disinfectants in my house. If you’ve listened to lots of my talks, I’m not for disinfecting your world. We need microbes, and we need that exposure. But I have a lot of isopropyl alcohol in my house right now because this is important enough where we have to take those steps.

Shivan Sarna: And where did you find it? You know, I’m a shopper. Where did you find yours?

Kiran Krishnan: Oh, the cleaners that I have? Oh, I actually just bought them on Amazon. So last week, we got a delivery of Lysol wipes. And then, the isopropyl alcohol, I just got delivered two days ago.

Shivan Sarna: You just maybe have to wait a couple of days, which I know is not ideal. But hang in there! Hang in there… hang in there.

Kiran Krishnan: And here’s one of the things I found too. The search that people are doing is searching for hand sanitizer. They’re searching for disinfectant, right? So those kinds of keywords are pulling up the results that most people are seeing, and then people are buying those things out.

So, when you search for things like isopropyl alcohol, even if you just look for isopropyl alcohol, that gives you a whole different search criteria that you wouldn’t find if you just searched for disinfected. Those people that are selling industrial types of isopropyl alcohol are not necessarily tagging the word sanitizer and all that in their products. So you can look for that, and then it’ll give you different results.


Shivan Sarna: I want to change the subject in just a moment. Monica is asking a great question, for those of us with SIBO and IBS and all these other possible things going on, what if you’re sensitive to chemicals?

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. So, if you don’t have someone else in your household that can do this stuff for you, you should be very, very cautious about—of course, if we’re using these kinds of chemicals, use it outside. Yesterday, we sprayed a couple packages inside the house. And it took a while for that smell and all that to go away. So, ventilation is really important.

One other thing you can do and what we’ve started doing with bigger packages is just opening the garage, going to the front door, taking things into the garage, and then cleaning them there, so that there’s better ventilation and you’re not breathing that stuff in.

Use gloves. Use hand gloves. We’re all washing our hands a lot more. We’re all using sanitizers. We’re doing all these things that we don’t normally do. Our hands are going to suffer from this. They’re going to get dry and cracked. That makes it actually more open to infections as well. So be careful about that. Use gloves.

If you have a mask—I don’t know if you do, I don’t have any masks, but if you do—just use a mask. Use an N95 type of respirator which will lower the amount of that stuff you’re breathing in.

So, those are things you can think about. If you can take the packages and open stuff out of the packages and leave it in your garage while the door is closed for a day or two, then that’ll help a lot if you can’t sanitize it at all. Like Shivan said, don’t necessarily leave it on your front porch because people are losing their mind, people are going around stealing stuff. You don’t want your house to become a target.

So, take that stuff, put it in your garage. Let it sit there for 24 or 48 hours before you bring it in the house. Typically, the virus will die on its own after a day or two.

Shivan Sarna: Okay, I’m going to totally change things up a little bit. And by the way, pretty much any soap works, guys, for your hands, for hand washing. So when I was in the different stores, I noticed that a lot of the natural stuff was still left because people want to nuke everything. But for your hands, the Myers hand soap is fine. You can use shampoo if you wanted to.

Kiran Krishnan: If it foams up, if you get bubbles from it, then it’s a surfactant and that works, yeah.

Shivan Sarna: That is the key.

Carleen, a huge fan of yours and supporter of this group and fellow patients: “Have you discussed your data on South Korea with Vice President Pence? I think that younger people should be made aware that they may be spreading CoVID19 virus.”

There you go! That’s a big one for you.

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, I called him, and he didn’t pick up the phone. But I tell you what though, and it’s really important, there’s a couple of things I’ve seen that have been troubling of course. In Chicago, over the last weekend, people were loaded at the bars for St. Patty’s Day celebrations. And not surprisingly enough, we’re now seeing an uptick in cases. There were a couple of parades in Miami last week. And now we’re seeing an uptick in cases.

The data is clear that’s coming out of South Korea and China. South Korea’s data is actually some of the best. Because they’re doing the most wide-scale testing, the data is getting stronger and stronger. They also have less of a questionable government. So you know that the data that’s coming out is likely more accurate than what you see at a place like China.

But what we’re seeing is that a huge percentage of the reservoir of this virus is in younger people, people between the age of 18 and 49. Now, those people aren’t getting terribly sick. And because of that, they’re not really conscious of their ability to be a carrier for this.

Remember, you can be a carrier for this up to two weeks without ever having symptoms. And why is this so important? Because if you look at something called the RNOT of this virus—this is the rate of infection of this virus, how easily it spreads—it’s somewhere around 3. So, for every one person that’s a carrier, will infect three others. And those three are going to infect three more. One person within one jump which is in a day now has led to 11 infections. And then, all of a sudden, you’re going to go to 30 and so on.

Recently, just yesterday, I saw an article about a doctor in Wisconsin who showed up to be positive. He of course didn’t know that he had it because he was asymptomatic while he was transmitting it. And being a doctor, he’s doing his work which is an important thing that he’s doing. But now, they are testing 200 people from that one case because when you do the traceability, you see all of the connections that it affects.

There’s one lawyer in New York. The early cases in New York, they’ve traced back 50 infections to one person. And not to victimize the person like they’re doing something wrong. He didn’t know he had it. But that’s how transmissible this is.

You could be completely asymptomatic and infect a couple of hundred people in a very short amount of time.

That is so important for our young people who are not really thinking about this as serious as they should. Think about the impact that they have on everybody else.

Now, here’s some new data as well. This is coming out of Europe. They’re seeing that 40% of the cases of people that require hospitalization are with people under the age of 40. So, as we get more data globally, we’re seeing that, “Wait a minute, people who are in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s might actually be more impacted by this than we originally thought.”

We were all thinking this is an elderly thing. You have huge amounts of chronic illnesses. Those are the people that are being infected. But in fact, out of France and Italy, the data is coming out that 40% to 50% of people are under the age of 60. That’s 50% under the age of 60. And then, out of France, it’s 40%, under the age 40.

You’re not immune to it. Younger people are not. They are vectors, and they can get really sick themselves.

One other thing, one of my friends was kind of taking a walk around his neighborhood, and he sent me this message and said: “Hey, if you get to talk to people, tell them about their teenagers that now that we’re off school,”—and I know, for a lot of parents, it’s hard to corral and keep your teenagers at home. He said he saw groups of teenagers all playing basketball together, like 6 or 7 or 8 of them.

That’s not social distancing. They’re going to go, and whoever they’re in contact with, 15 of those people, whoever they’re in contact with, that’s all the contacts that they’re bringing back home every single day. So, as hard as it may be, keep the teenagers corralled at home. If they have to sit it on a device all day, let them do it because it’s really important to keep that lack of contact and social distancing.

Shivan Sarna: I’m going to go a little bit more quickly because we only have so much time. And we have some really super duper strong questions.

Okay, don’t laugh. I’m in a green room at work.

Kiran Krishnan: Ooh, you went dark right now.

Shivan Sarna: I’ll throw this one your way, stand up and make body motions, so the auto light goes back on. There it was!

What about raising core body temp and how to best do that? I think saunas have been getting some attention.

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, having an elevated body temp for part of the day is going to be beneficial. That’s typically beneficial anyway. People should be practicing that. I’ve been in my infrared sauna every single day for around 15 to 20 minutes—hot showers, exercise, if you have the luxury of sitting in your own sauna. Mine’s a little foldable one. So it’s not a big, fancy sauna, but it does the trick. But take a hot shower everyday. Breathe in the steam and let yourself sit in the shower and enjoy the hot water for a period of time.

So, you can do some exercise to get your body temperature up. And then, while you’re still warm, jump into a hot shower. These are just things that are good for your system in general. We’re not saying that that’s going to cure CoVID19 or treat CoVID19, but that’s just good for your system to stay healthy because we all need to stay as healthy as we can this time.

Shivan Sarna: Okay, this is not medical advice, you guys. This is a brilliant microbiologist who’s sharing his wisdom and his observations. I just like to always do that disclaimer.

By the way, vinegar does not kill the virus. I want to be very clear with you. I do know that. What about fulvic acid for assisting the decrease of the viral load in addition to the use of nitric oxide which may bind to scepters protein bound with virus. ACE inhibitors increase the virus due to binding to H2 receptors, more dangerous for patients with HTN on ACE high blood pressure meds?”

Hi Sue! That was a very complex commentary. But let’s break it down. What about fulvic acid?

Kiran Krishnan: So there’s no evidence on fulvic acid inhibiting the virus attachment itself. It’s too new. Remember, we only discovered this virus like two and a half months ago. So, we don’t know all of these things.

What’s good—and this is part of the silver lining—is they’ve elucidated the pathophysiology of how the virus infects quite a bit. But they haven’t yet tested a bunch of things against that. So we just have to go with what we know right now.

We do know that the virus uses a receptor called the ACE2 receptor in order to bind and get into the cell. Now, we know that one of the reasons why ACE inhibitor use actually increases your risk is because most ACE inhibitors are ACE1 inhibitors. And ACE1 inhibitors actually increase the expression of ACE2. So it actually increases more targets for the virus.

We also know that people with chronic illnesses or who are older or who have heart disease or blood pressure tend to have higher expression of ACE2. ACE2 is a receptor that your body increases expression of as part of its repair and protection process.

So, the virus has very cleverly made its target a receptor that is going to be expressed at higher levels in the weakest of us in the society. That’s the insanely brilliant part of this.

Now, of course, the virus didn’t design this. It’s happenstance of evolution. But that is the big theme here. The more inflamed you are, the more you have chronic illnesses and all that, the more expression there is of ACE2 which gives a virus more targets.

So, although there’s nothing that we’ve seen so far that has shown that it can specifically block the binding of the virus, it does behoove all of us to try to bring down our systemic inflammation at this time because it just helps us be healthier. It helps us be more resilient.

So, I take a lot of things that are anti-inflammatory to begin with like fish oils and vitamin C and garlic extracts. And of course, the right type of probiotics can really help with that. So, anything you can do to help reduce your systemic inflammation will help you be a little bit more resilient in this current pandemic situation.

None of this is any sort of treatment or prevention for CoVID19. This is all about really improving your own health to stay a little bit more resilient.

So, think about inflammation, having inflammation seems to be a risk factor with this particular pathogen.

Kiran Krishnan: Inflammation, a lot of us have that if you have SIBO or leaky gut. So are you thinking like turmeric would be helpful, all of those anti-inflammatories?

Okay! Speaking of anti-inflammatories, this whole Advil—it’s the sort of brand that comes to my brain about the Tylenol versus Advil scenario. If somebody doesn’t know what I’m talking about, can you explain because you have a better language for it?

Kiran Krishnan: So, basically what the World Health Organization is showing is that if you use NSAIDs or if you use ibuprofen, it actually increases the risk for progression of the illness. There’s two parts to it.

One is about controlling fever. Again, fever is your body’s natural defense against this particular type of pathogen because this pathogen is heat sensitive. And so your body increases the fever. It’s not the virus causing the increase in the fever. Your immune system is increasing the fever to make your system hotter, which makes it less viable for the virus itself.

So, part of this is, if you keep bringing down your fever with things like Advil, then you’re basically shutting down your natural defense against it.

Now, if your fever is really too high and can cause other issues like organ shut down and all that, that’s a whole other case. But if your fever is in the tolerable range, you may want to just maintain your fever. So that’s one aspect of it.

Then the second aspect of it is the mechanism of action of things like non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like Advil versus Tylenol. So we’ve got Advil and Aleve—and I’m trying to think of the other brands—versus Tylenol which functions in a different mechanism.

So, this one has COX-LOX inhibition. And this one doesn’t. One of the problems is these types that the Advil and Tylenol type of fever reducers actually bring down the parts of your immune system that are important to fight the virus versus Tylenol… which doesn’t seem to be do that.

And that’s part of the reason why, in kids, if you can, use Tylenol more when they get sick and they get the flu and so on. You tend to use Tylenol more than you use Advil and Aleve. So, that’s just a general important thing to remember. Getting into the biochemistry of it, we can do that. But I think people will get lost. I think the important thing to remember is we have good natural defenses. We need to let some of those natural defenses function. And some of those things are brought down by the use of Advil and Aleve.

Shivan Sarna: That’s a great, great explanation that I hadn’t heard put that way.

Okay, would Biocidin be helpful? What are your thoughts on that? We all love Biocidin for so many different things. But it hasn’t been tested, right? 

Kiran Krishnan: Right! We can’t say that Biocidin is going to kill CoVID19. We don’t know that. Nobody knows that.

But again, in the context of staying healthy, we don’t want co-infections. We don’t want other pathogens that are going to bring down our immune system and tax our immune system in a time when we need to function optimally.


Kiran Krishnan: Biocidin is something that’s been helping you with controlling your seasonal colds or whatever it may be. But then we’re still going through the cold and flu season. So anything that helps you in any other cold and flu season to stay healthy will be a benefit here. So, all of those things are on the table in terms of keeping your body functioning optimally and also maintaining some resilience.

That’s another really important part of this message. So one of the dangers that we have here in the US of what this virus can do to us is we have such a huge proportion of the population that has chronic conditions, right? We’re not seeing that as much in other countries. We’re seeing that in Italy where you have a higher percentage of elderly population, and you have a higher percentage of smokers. There’s about 24% of adults in Italy that smoke; in the US, it’s only about 12% to 13%. So we’re okay there. And we don’t have as high of an elderly population. But we do have a much higher population of chronic metabolic syndrome—things like obesity, diabetes and heart disease. So those people are vulnerable as well because, again, all of that drives inflammation.

So, think about that vulnerability. Think about the inflammatory processes that are going on in your body outside of this whole virus. All of those things tax your body. We want to be managing those things, so we’re more resilient against this pathogen.

Shivan Sarna: Okay, guys, what about zinc vitamin C, astragalus—that I didn’t pronounce totally right. What’s the story with elderberry not being recommended for the coronavirus?

Kiran Krishnan: Well, you know, it’s interesting. So there was a big surge in elderberry recently. It’s hard to find elderberry right now because it’s sold out. And elderberry has this kind of—it’s not an antiviral in itself, but it has this ability to upregulate your immune system, the parts of your immune system that go after viruses, right? So you can have bacterial infections, parasitic infections, allergens, viral infections. All of those actually have different parts of your immune system that work against those. So there are certain compounds that have been shown to be able to upregulate things that battle viruses. Elderberry has been shown and known to be one of those things. So then the surge of elderberry purchases went through.

Now, some people are coming back and saying that, “Hey, we don’t want people to think of elderberry as an anti-CoVID19, as a treatment for it. So that may be where some of the pushback is coming from. To me,  elderberry is fine. It supports your immune system. If you’re trying to stay as healthy as possible right now, it’s totally fine to take it. My kids take it. They take it just normally once a day, especially through the cold and flu season. They’re doing that anyway. So we’re just keeping them on that.

What I’m focusing on right now, which I don’t normally take, is vitamin D, and especially this time of year, because now we’re also not going out. And over here in Chicago, the weather’s been horrendous. We’re not even seeing the sun if we went out. So, vitamin D is really important in part of the antiviral battle in your system. So, you’re upregulating the parts of your immune system that fight viruses…

I’m taking vitamin D myself. I’m taking somewhere around 5 to 10,000 IUs a day. I’m taking zinc myself. Zinc is an important part of upregulating the battling against the viral part of your immune system. I’m taking magnesium, which is another important part of it. Vitamin C, I’m doing. Typically, during the cold and flu season, I’m doing 2000 to 3000 mg of vitamin C, but now I’m doing a little bit more. I’m doing about 4000 mg. of vitamin C. Of course, the probiotics which upregulate our T and B cells and their proliferation.

And again, none of these things are a treatment or a prevention for this. These are all just ways to kind of support your immune system and keep you a little bit more resilient against all of this.

Shivan Sarna: Hey, Kiran, do you have an announcement by any chance? Did you get that…? 

Kiran Krishnan: Oh, yeah! We’ve been doing as much as we can to support people’s ability to get products that they need to stay healthy and all that. We always try to offer for your support everything that we do. We’ve got a 15% coupon code. And I think the code is HEALTHGUARD. And this is for your people only through the link that you provide them. And that’s for all of the products that we have to your system. So everything is 15%. << expired March 22, 2020 at 11:59pm Pacific Time – instead use coupon DIGESTIONSOS for 15% off on your first order]

It’s interesting… I’ll just mention this very quickly because we need to get to the rapid fire questions. We’re seeing a big uptick in our products going out into the marketplace. And in talking to people as to why, we’re finding two things.

Number one is people are just kind of increasing their doses of everything they take that they typically take to be healthy. So that’s one thing. But another thing is they’re actually like sending it out to their friends and family, people that aren’t as conscious as a lot of your audience is of health and wellness and so on. So they’re sending it to their teenage kids. They’re sending it to their kids who are in college. They’re sending it to their uncle that doesn’t ever look at this kind of stuff.

Shivan Sarna: Thank you! This is where Kiran has also been so wildly supportive of SIBO SOS®. Normally, you have to go to a practitioner to get his products. But because of the relationship that I have with him and the community. You have to use a patient direct code, SIBOSOS. And then, enter HEALTHGUARD DIGESTIONSOS as the coupon code—it’s different than the patient direct code— a wonderful introductory 15% off that first order. 

It’s not on the stool test because that would be super complicated. So that’s what I wanted to say.

When is Restoflora coming back?

Kiran Krishnan: Ah, yes, there’s been a global shortage on Saccharomyces boulardii. But we have some on order. And we’re expecting it to be back in three or four weeks. And what’s really awesome about that product—and whatever I have left, I’ve been taking higher doses of it because the clausii that’s in there has been shown in other studies (of course, not related to CoVID) to improve upper respiratory health. And that’s kind of the area that we’re all concerned about right now.

Oh, and then I should mention that as well, the things I’m taking. The other thing I’m taking right now that I don’t normally take in high amounts of is beta carotene. Beta carotene has lots of studies on it on reducing the inflammatory and hyperactivity reactions in the upper respiratory tract. And so for me—and I’ve had this what we call exercise-induced asthma. I don’t have asthma, per se, but it’s exercise-induced. So, my respiratory tract is more prone to hyper reactivity. And so I’ve been taking beta carotene for that reason as well.

Just a little tip for people if you want to keep your lungs nice and healthy, that seems to help.

Shivan Sarna: More questions, Lauricidin is an antiviral. What do you think?

Kiran Krishnan: So Lauricidin is an antiviral. Of course, there’s no evidence that it works against CoVID. But they do have evidence on it helping with other types of viral infections. And this time, again, I will want to reiterate this, we are still in the cold and flu season. And because we’re still in the cold and flu season, you’ve got this risk of picking up other things.

And in fact, that risk of picking up a cold or a flu is probably still higher than picking up CoVID19. So you want to make sure that your system is optimal and that you are as resilient as possible. So anything you’ve done to protect yourself against other viruses, keep doing it. We need to have a functioning optimal system.

Shivan Sarna: It is Lauricidin. It is from coconut… yes, it is.

Let’s see, can Megaspore assist with C. diff for a patient that is more compromised to fight the virus?

Kiran Krishnan: So we are doing a bunch of C. diff studies right now with Megaspore. We’ve got two studies completed at Cleveland Clinic. And these are animal studies (so they’re not human studies yet). And what we’re seeing in the animal models is that the spores in Megaspore, in that particular formulation, does compete against the Clostridium difficile.

Whether that translates to humans, we still don’t know. But the spores are well known to be competitive. I would say it’s definitely not going to do any harm. And it’s going to more than likely help in some way. So absolutely…

Now, clinically, we’ve had lots of patients who deal with C. diff recurrently use Megaspore with success to maintain their digestive health. But again, we have that animal study that shows it does compete against C. diff.

Shivan Sarna: Alright! So, that means if it competes against C. diff, that’s good, right?

Kiran Krishnan: It’s a positive thing. And again, it’s not going to do any harm if you have the issue. If anything, it can be a help and support.

Shivan Sarna: Okay! And I know some of you are new to Kiran and Megaspore and Microbiome Labs. You can go to and read about all of these very specialized products. So, we’re talking, and I know some people, you might be thinking, “There’s lingo! What are you talking about?” because I’m about to say something that sounds like lingo. But go to the website and read more about it.

What about HU58 for the virus?

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. So HU58 is really interesting. In fact, it’s been selling like crazy maybe for this reason. But one of the things that the spores, especially the subtilis does, is upregulates T-lymphocytes in the Peyer’s patches. So, you take it orally, and as it goes through the digestive tract and interacts with an area of your gut in the ileum called the Peyer’s patch, when it interacts with that area, it upregulates your immune systems’ production of T-cells. So, that is a big benefit in your body’s defense against viruses.

And so, for that reason, I’m upregulating my intake of it. And again, it’s about staying resilient and staying healthy. We don’t know if that’s going to kill CoVID19. We can’t say that at all. But it’s about upregulating your systems that help defend against these things.

Shivan Sarna: What about MegaIgG2000 in conjunction and Megaspore and HU58 all combined? But we haven’t really spoken about MegaIgG2000.

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah, MegaIgG is awesome actually. So that’s another one of the products I’ve increased my intake of.

There are studies on viral challenges using MegaIgG. There’s a number of animal studies because it’s been used in animals a lot where you infect the animals with viruses specifically, and then you use the immunoglobulins to see if their immune system mounts a better response. In general, you see a better response by the immune system against a viral pathogen when you use the IgG.

Now, again, this was not done with the CoVID19. I don’t want to make even the inference of that because that would not be ethically right. But what we know about the IgG is it does support the immune system with the defense mechanism.

So, that’s another reason why I’m taking more of that each day. I typically take four capsules of that which is a 2-gram dose as my maintenance. But nowadays, because of what’s going on, I’m taking four in the morning and four in the evening before bed as well.


Shivan Sarna: Okay, can Megaspore be taken with vancomycin?

Kiran Krishnan: It can… yes, it can be. And in fact, the C. diff study that we’re doing at the Cleveland Clinic, a couple of the arms of that study is in concomitant treatment with vancomycin. So, it can be taken with it. It can be taken with Xifaxan. We have a study on that in liver failure patients. So we’ve shown that it can be taken with pretty much any antibiotic.

Shivan Sarna: What do your fellow microbiologists and your fellow medical experts around the globe talking about? What are they telling you? What do you find to be fascinating? What’s keeping you up at night with “That might be it! Maybe that’ll help!”?

Kiran Krishnan: Yeah. You know, to me, well, there’s two things, two messages I want to point out.

Number one, I think we’re going to have a treatment for CoVID19. There’s actually some really interesting studies going on in a couple of pharmaceuticals and a couple of natural products. China is doing some studies on herbal compounds that seem to be having some success. We don’t want to say too much now because we don’t want people going crazy and trying to buy those and trying to treat themselves with it.

But the promise is that we know a lot about how this virus attacks the system. Because we know about that, there are ways of targeting that mechanism. And I think sometime in the next six, seven or eight months, we’re going to have some very promising treatments for this.

So, if this pandemic should last longer than we want it to, we will likely be offered a treatment that could be pretty effective for it which could just kind of bring everything back down to normal, right. So that’s one really good thing.

But here’s another really important message I want people to have in their mind. This is a bit of a dress rehearsal for something that is going to come along that’s much worse. The advantage of CoVID19 is that it’s very contagious, but it’s also not particularly lethal compared to the types of viruses in this family. Take MERS, for example. MERS is a coronavirus. It’s the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome virus that came out—I think it was 2004 or 2005 or something like that. MERS has a mortality rate of 30%. This has a mortality rate of 1%, around 1%. And so, it’s about 30 times more lethal, but it’s not as contagious than MERS.

SARS has a mortality rate of 16% to 17%. So it’s 15 or 16 times higher than this, but it’s not as contagious. At some point, we’re going to be faced with a virus that is as contagious as this is and as lethal as some of those other viruses are. That’s when we’re going to be in trouble.

So, we are going through a dress rehearsal right now as a society, as a global society, for how do we deal with these types of pathogens because it’s going to come up. Ultimately, this is the kind of thing that’s going to really hamper and take us out.

And it’s a contagion. It’s not going to be immigrants. It’s not going to be terrorists. Terrorists are a problem in their own right, but it’s not going to be those things. All of those things that we think about and we buy warships for and all that, those aren’t the things that are really going to take us out globally as a society. It’s going to be a pathogen.

So, everything that you do right now to protect yourself against this is going to be important to continue to do for your own personal health, for your family’s health, because that makes you more resilient against these kinds of things.

So, just keep that in mind. We’ll get through this. We’ll probably be fine as a society. But let’s always be prepared and ready to act when the next one comes along.

Shivan Sarna: And we have resources. And we have resilience as a globe. So I just want to ask everyone to send out thoughts of prayers, gratitude—that’s right, gratitude—for what we do have and what is working and for friends who are wise and share their knowledge with us so freely—and give us 15% discount! Thank you on all of the Megaspore products. This is a line obviously I truly believe (or I wouldn’t have Kiran here talking about it). And so it’s worth a try.

Shivan Sarna: We love you. We thank you so much. I will try to get you those questions as soon as possible. 

Kiran Krishnan: Take care! Bye bye.


sibo course

Today I’m excited to share with you an all-new FREE webinar with my friend, colleague and founder of Microbiome Labs, microbiologist Kiran Krishnan!

Kiran is a fan-favorite here at SIBO SOS® and he is back by popular demand to talk about a “controversial topic” – stool tests!

If you’ve been confused or overwhelmed by stool tests, you don’t want to miss this Q&A. We’ll cover:

  • What stool tests can and can’t diagnose (SIBO, parasites, gut imbalances and more)
  • The problem with many stool tests
  • A new approach to stool testing (available directly to patients)

This is the very first time Kiran has spoken publicly about Microbiome Labs’ new stool test-  and for the first time, it’s available directly to the SIBO SOS® community!

Watch now:

You can view sample test results by clicking HERE.

Want to order your BiomeFX test?

Normally, you would need to order this test through a practitioner.

But Kiran has agreed to make the test available directly to the SIBO SOS® Community! That means you can order it yourself, and get the results delivered straight to you. (I do recommend working with a practitioner to help interpret the results.)

First, register as a patient with patient direct code “SIBOSOS” HERE: (This is the first step and it is essential to be able to order.)

Then, watch the below video to learn how to order and what to do once you place your order to successfully complete your test. (Having trouble? Please contact Microbiome Labs directly for help with ordering: or call 904-940-2208). (My customer service team cannot assist you with ordering!)

sibo course

Since I was diagnosed with SIBO in 2015, I have been blessed to meet many talented practitioners to answer my questions, including Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis. I like to call him  the teacher’s teacher.  He has taught so many incredible practitioners and is a gifted clinician himself.

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis (or Dr. SSL as he is affectionately called by many of his patients and colleagues!) is an expert in functional gastroenterology – he quite literally wrote the book on this topic! This means that he looks at digestive issues like SIBO, acid reflux, and IBS as part of the whole body (not just isolated issues). He has been instrumental in my own healing and that of thousands of other people.

Last month, Dr. Sandberg-Lewis graciously agreed to take time out of his busy practice, Hive Mind Medicine, in Portland, OR to answer some of our community questions. The SIBO SOS® community has been blessed with his teachings in every single summit we have done! He always provides incredible insight and advice.

In this Q&A (and trasncripts as our gift to you) he covered:

  • adrenal and thyroid health
  • acid reflux causes and solutions
  • prostate inflammation
  • heavy metal poisoning
  • breath test interpretation
  • and much more!

There is so much information packed into this Q&A – don’t miss it!

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis is currently accepting new patients at Hive Mind Medicine! Click HERE for more information. 

You can watch the Q&A below or CLICK HERE to download the complete transcript.

SIBO SOS Gifting Guide

What do people with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth want for the holidays?

You might think I’m joking… but I’m not!

While a home breath test isn’t the “sexiest” gift of all time, for someone who has SIBO, it’s a very welcome one!

And if you’ve got SIBO but are buying for those who don’t? There are some great gifts here for even those without SIBO!

(And one last thing…. I won’t tell if you pick up some of these gifts just for yourself!!)

Encyclopedia of Medical Breakthroughs

I have an insatiable appetite for new health information… and when I find a resource that has information I haven’t heard before? Goldmine! This Encyclopedia has over 200+ uncommon but scientifically-validated breakthroughs for everything from cancer to hair loss! The perfect gift for anyone with an interest in “outside-the-box” health information. Get it here. 

Lumvi Skincare

This skincare line is created by the brilliant Dr. Christine Schaffner (who you may have seen in the Digestion SOS™ Docuseries). It’s one of the rare skincare lines that is both totally safe and natural… but actually works! I recommend the Basics Bundle – luxe + luminate + correct. It has everything you need  – and when you buy a bundle, you’ll get a free Brightening Peptide Serum (give it away or keep it for yourself!). Check it out here. 

Pique Tea

As much as I know water is good for me.. I get bored drinking it plain. I’m always searching for new ways to mix it up that aren’t full of scary ingredients like artificial colors and sweeteners… that’s how I found Pique Tea. Pique Tea is convenient pouches of tea that dissolve instantly in water – and contains 12x the antioxidants of regular tea (so good for gut health!). Did I mention it’s delicious? I recommend anything in the Holiday Favorites Collection (and use this link and code HOLIDAY10 for 10% off your order!) 

Wholetones 2Sleep

What’s a better gift than a good night’s sleep? I’ve tried everything – melatonin, warm tea before bed, blue-blocking glasses – but nothing else compares to how Wholetones 2Sleep helps me fall asleep quickly and stay asleep soundly. It’s a one-of-a-kind speaker that plays noise at a specific frequency to help you sleep. Totally natural, safe, and non-habit forming. A great gift for anyone on your list! And it’s 25% off right now, to boot! Get it 25% off here. 

Science Naturals Supplements Turmeric with BioPerine

You know how getting a really nice pair of socks as a gift is the best? (Since you wouldn’t normally splurge on them for yourself.) It’s the same with really great supplements. Science Naturals Supplements Turmeric with BioPerine is the “cream of the crop” when it comes to anti-inflammatory turmeric – and it’s specifically formulated for maximum absorption. Get 3 bottles free when you buy 1 during their Thanksgiving sale (perfect for gifting!)

Activation Products

Truthfully I’d like anything from Activation Products as a gift! They create luxe health supplements (including Ease Magnesium Spray which I love) and dietary supplement oils. Every item is thoughtfully designed for maximum benefits – and the packaging is gorgeous, too! Check it out here.

SIBO SOS™ Masterclass Summit

This is my gift to you! On December 14th, I’m hosting an Encore Presentation of the Summit with 20 expert-taught SIBO SOS Masterclasses – totally free to watch! We have experts like Dr. Allison Siebecker, Dr. Mark Pimentel, and Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis (and many more) on topics from treatment, testing, prevention, mold, parasites, yeast, and more!  As part of my community, you’re getting FREE access – keep an eye on your inbox for more information. Not on our email list? Go ahead and register here. 

Happy Holidays!!

Hope & hugs,

Sibo and fatty liver

Our liver is our most overworked and underrated organ.

It’s always had a “tough job” of cleaning up the messes in our bodies… but in the modern environment, the liver often has to work overtime!

The world is a very different place today than it was even when my parents were kids…

  • More air, water, and soil pollution
  • Contamination in food, household, and beauty items
  • Prescriptions meds contaminating our water
  • Ultra-processed foods have become the norm


But it’s not all doom and gloom!

Luckily, our liver is specially designed to help clean up this mess! But what happens when the liver is overburdened? That’s what I want to talk about today.

Why I Love My Liver

Your liver is the largest internal organ (weighing in at about 3 pounds) — and the reason it’s so big is because it’s involved in over 500 bodily functions.

The liver is the “filtration” system for your body. Blood from the digestive tract filters through the liver. The liver also detoxes anything you’ve ingested that could be toxic – pesticide residue, alcohol, medication, and more. 

And the liver has other jobs too – it also creates bile (which is stored and concentrated in the gallbladder) and makes proteins that are important throughout the body. 

You can’t live without a liver and it’s the 2nd most common transplanted organ (right behind kidneys). 

The Modern World Doesn’t Love Your Liver

There have always been toxins that needed to be filtered out by the liver – but never to the extent we see today, according to Dr. Gurevich. 

“If we lived back before technology and back before processed foods, the liver would have to be processing some of “this and some of that” but not nearly the degree that it’s processing right now,” she told me. 

That means the liver is working overtime… and that can lead to changes in the liver over time.

“The older you get, the more that the liver is processing, the more likely it is to get fatty changes, which is basically an inflammatory process.,” Dr. Gurevich said.

And that brings us to a really important topic: fatty liver disease.

Fatty Liver Disease Is An Epidemic

Fatty liver disease occurs when fatty deposits form on the liver as a result of inflammation.

It’s associated with alcoholism… but can also occur in non-drinkers and is then called non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD).

Current stats suggest 1 in 3 Americans has fatty liver disease! (And many don’t know it.)

It’s also the most common cause of liver disease in the U.S. (aside from alcohol and hepatitis C.)

It’s a precursor to conditions like:

  • Heart disease
  • Cancer
  • Diabetes
  • Dementia
  • Autoimmune disorders
  • Sleep problems
  • Chronic fatigue
  • Underactive thyroid
  • Skin issues

Even more importantly for you and I… fatty liver disease is also associated with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)! 

The SIBO-Fatty Liver Connection

According to functional gastroenterologist Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis, “There’s a study that just talks about the association between gallbladder disease, especially gallstones, SIBO, metabolic syndrome and fatty liver. These are all associated conditions. For a long time now, we’ve known that SIBO is associated with fatty liver.”

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis has multiple theories for what could be causing the association:

“When you get more of the bacteria in the small bowel, they convert the B vitamin choline into a toxic substance called methylamine. It’s toxic to the kidneys. It causes injury to the heart and arteries. It causes injury to the liver. All these things tend to increase inflammation.

Also, with bacterial overgrowth and yeast overgrowth in the small bowel, you get more production of alcohol, endogenous ethanol production, sometimes called Auto Brewery Syndrome. So bacteria and yeast can produce alcohol in the gut. And that’s where you absorb alcohol, in the small intestine. So, when you’re producing even smaller amounts, it can have major effects.”

But he has one other theory, too:

“Also, we know that when you have certain types of bacterial overgrown in SIBO, what are called the gram-negative, they produce a lot of what’s called lipopolysaccharides or LPS which is also toxic to your kidneys, liver, to your cardiovascular system. And it’s a major provocation of inflammation.

In fact, often, when they’re trying to create sepsis or septic shock in mice in a research study, they’ll just give them an injection of lipopolysaccharide, and it’ll put them into septic shock. 

Lower amounts I think are really important in many diseases and chronic liver, kidney and heart disease. And it starts in the gut with LPS from bacteria that are overgrown.”

While we don’t know the exact reasons SIBO and fatty liver are related, the association is obviously here… and that means people with SIBO need to be especially aware of liver health.

Learn More About Healing Fatty Liver

Obviously, getting SIBO under control is an important step for liver health long-term – that’s why I’m always available to share as many resources as I can on healing from SIBO!

But there’s also a lot to learn about the liver, and that’s not my area of expertise. Luckily, my friend my friend Jonathan Landsman IS a liver health expert and he wants to share what he knows with all of us!

>> Watch the Fatty liver Docu-Class

By attending this 100% free, online event you will:

  • Understand the health complications of a fatty liver … that will forever change the way you view your lifestyle
  • Get a detailed list of toxins that damage your liver … and trigger a wide variety of health problems
  • Learn about the best natural therapies to regenerate your liver … featuring the latest medical breakthroughs
  • Discover the link between liver disorders and autoimmune conditions … and how you can fix these problems naturally
  • Understand why “the usual” liver enzyme tests are not enough … and, what you need to know BEFORE you experience a health crisis
  • Learn why having 2 (or more) kids places an extra burden on the liver … what mothers everywhere need to know

Check out this amazing line-up of speakers and topics >>

This is such an important topic for us SIBO sufferers.. I hope you’ll take the time to watch!

Hope & hugs,


SIBO and Garlic

Judging by posts in the SIBO SOS® Facebook Community, many of us who struggle with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth  are VERY confused about garlic!

Here are some screenshots of posts we’ve had in the group:

Let me start by saying – I totally understand the confusion! I used to be confused myself.

You may have heard that you shouldn’t eat garlic if you have SIBO… but that garlic is also a popular treatment…. How can that be? 

But it’s actually simple once someone explains it to you. I was lucky enough to have Dr. Allison Siebecker explain the difference to me, and today I want to pass that knowledge on to you!

Is Garlic a “Forbidden Food” For SIBO Patients?

This is where all the confusion begins! 

Garlic is a high-FODMAP food. FODMAP stands for fermentable Oligosaccharides, Disaccharides, Monosaccharides, and Polyols. These are short chain carbohydrates and for people with issues like SIBO or IBS (irritable bowel syndrome), foods that are high in FODMAPs can increase symptoms like bloating and discomfort. 

Many diets for SIBO and IBS recommend limiting high-FODMAP foods and sticking to a low-FODMAP diet. 

But defining what foods are “high” and “low” in FODMAPs is a little tricky. There’s no universal standard for high and low, and quantity matters a lot, as well. Even a food that is very high in FODMAPs might be well-tolerated by people with IBS and SIBO in smaller quantities. 

To make it even MORE confusing, not all people with SIBO or IBS react to all high-FODMAP foods. Some people might only struggle with oligosaccharides and be fine with polyols, for example. And some people might be able to tolerate one food that is high in monosaccharides but not another.

That means that there is no such thing as forbidden foods for SIBO and IBS. The best diets for SIBO and IBS are “frameworks” for finding the foods that work for you – not black and white guidelines. 

The only way to know what foods you can and can’t tolerate it to test them! (To learn more about this, I recommend Dr. Siebecker’s Diet Masterclass).

Garlic is a high-FODMAP food  that contains fructo-oligosaccharides that some people with SIBO don’t tolerate – but for others, it is just fine (or maybe only tolerated in small quantities). 

What About Garlic Infused Foods?

Some people who develop symptoms after eating whole garlic (like a clove of garlic in tomato sauce) are able to tolerate garlic infused foods (like olive oil). 

That’s simply because the short chain carbohydrates that can cause a problem are in the fiber of the garlic. 

That being said, some people say that even low-FODMAP garlic infused items cause symptoms for them.

But remember: for all foods, the “dose makes the poison” when it comes to FODMAPs. You might be fine with a hint of garlic but can’t handle a lot. Or perhaps you’re very sensitive to garlic and have to temporarily avoid it altogether. 

Or maybe you don’t react to garlic at all… but find you can’t tolerate apples or oatmeal or some other food. We’re all unique and there’s no one-size-fits-all protocol.

But one last thing: just because a food is high-FODMAP or causes symptoms for you doesn’t mean that the food is bad, unhealthy, or has to be avoided for life.

Comparison isn’t helpful in SIBO – just because one person can tolerate garlic and you can’t doesn’t mean you’ll never eat Italian again or are doing something wrong! 

Using Garlic To Treat SIBO

Garlic isn’t just a sometimes-problematic food… it’s also one of the most effective natural treatment options for SIBO.

But if many people with SIBO don’t tolerate garlic, how can that be? 

According to Dr. Siebecker, garlic is one of the 4 main herbs used to treat SIBO – but it’s not just regular garlic cloves you can buy at the grocery store. 

Instead, it’s an extract of garlic called allicin.

“The four main herbs that we use typically to treat SIBO are berberine containing herbs, which are things like goldenseal root, Oregon grape, barberry Coptis. Neem is a traditional ayurvedic and a microbial. We use oregano, like the kitchen herb spice, oregano oil. And then lastly is an extract that comes from garlic called allicin, like my name but it’s spelled different. 

And in that one we like to use stabilized allicin extract because garlic is a very fermentable food and triggers a lot of people’s SIBO symptoms. We don’t want to use whole garlic per se like the actual clove taking it down, unless somebody did tolerate that, but it’s pretty common for SIBO people not to. And we don’t want to use like garlic crushed or garlic oil. We prefer the antibacterial extract allicin that’s been extracted out.”

Even if you can’t tolerate garlic whatsoever, you will likely be able to tolerate allicin extract as part of a SIBO treatment because it doesn’t contain the problematic fructo-oligosaccharides. 

Why Garlic Is A Key Player In Treating SIBO

There are three main types of SIBO: hydrogen dominant, methane dominant, and hydrogen sulfide.

(Although as research continues to advance, more types and more specifications within each type are likely to be discovered!)

According to Dr. Siebecker, “The special thing about allicin is that this is what treats the methane, methanogenic archaea (which, for ease, we’ll just say bacteria). They are tough to kill. And they need different antimicrobials to kill them. And the extract from garlic does it, allicin. It works against them. We see it clinically. We see it with our before and after breath tests. It’s for real.”

If you have methane, garlic is a must-have for herbal antibiotic treatments. 

The Garlic Dr. Siebecker Recommends 

If you’re considering taking garlic as part of an herbal protocol for SIBO, here’s what Dr. Siebecker has shared with me in the past:

“Berberine and Allimed is my go-to combination. I think of berberine kind of like Rifaximin, and Allimed like the neomycin or metronidazole, because this is what works on the methane, this is what works on the hydrogen—and you need to do them both.”

Here’s why a two-part treatment is so important:

“The reason you need to do them both is because methane archaea turn hydrogen into methane. So there are already bacteria making hydrogen there, and then there are other bacteria that are turning that hydrogen into methane. You have both there, so you need to address them both.”

And what about choosing the right allicin supplement?

“My go-to is Allimed. And we use the “-med” because it just gives the strongest potency in the least amount of pills. And the dose on this is six a day. And usually, when you’re taking a bunch of pills, we split that into three doses. You can do it as two, three times a day, or you can do it as three, two times a day.”

Help! I’ve Already Tried Allimed (Without Results)

Remember that SIBO is a tricky condition to treat – and typically requires trial and error (if you’re one of the lucky ones who’s very first treatment eradicate SIBO – good for you!).

Dr. Siebecker recommend trying Allimed paired with another herb – if you tried Allimed and berberine, for instance, try Allimed and neem next.

How often can you keep repeating this? 

“Keep going until we don’t think it’s working anymore or we see on the test it’s not working anymore,” said Dr. Siebecker. 

My Allimed Experience

As a person with methane SIBO, I’ve used Allimed several times. 

I have a very fond feeling toward it, as it definitely made a huge improvement in my symptoms!

My pro tip? Keep it in the fridge or freezer. It does have a noticeable “garlic-y” and keeping it frozen helps reduce the odor!

Want to try it yourself?

I know how expensive trying different treatments can be – so I’m excited to be able to share a special discount with you today!

Use code “LOVEMYBODY” for 20% off your order from Allimed!

Have you tried Allimed? Are you going to? Leave a comment and let us know!

sibo course

Hi friends!

At my last webinar with microbiologist and founder of Microbiome Labs, Kiran Krishnan, (if you missed that webinar, catch up here), Kiran graciously offered to share a practitioners-only presentation he recently gave on Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth with us!

If you’re like me, you love getting access to the info that’s normally only privy to gut-health experts!

You can watch the entire presentation in the video below. And a special thank you to Kiran for sharing this important talk with us!

And don’t forget – you can also use my “Patient Direct Code” to order supplements directly from Microbiome Labs (which normally requires access to a practitioner!)

Register as a patient with patient direct code “SIBOSOS” HERE: (this is the first step – you can’t order directly from Microbiome Labs unless you do this).

Then use code “DIGESTIONSOS” for 15% off your entire order! (This coupon is one-time-use only!)

sibo course

Microbiologist Kiran Krishnan is a SIBO SOS™ fan favorite and the creator of truly gut-changing supplements like Megaspore and Mega IGG.

In this webinar, Kiran walks us through his 3 -step “Total Gut Restoration” process. You’ll learn about the differences between a healthy and unhealthy gut and how his 3-step process helps heal the gut.

P.S. If you want to try Kiran’s 3-step Total Gut Restoration Protocol, he gave us an exclusive 15% off code!

First, register as a patient with patient direct code “SIBOSOS” HERE: (this is the first step – you can’t order directly from Microbiome labs unless you do this) 

Next, add the Total Gut Restoration products you’ll need for the protocol (3 bottles of Megaspore, 2 bottles of Mega Prebiotic, and 1 bottle of Mega Mucosa) to your cart.

Finally, enter code “GUTRESTORE15” at checkout. 

Want to try a different product? Register with patient direct code “SIBOSOS” HERE:, then use code “DIGESTIONSOS” for 15% off your entire order! But this coupon is one-time-use only, so load up your cart!

Q&A With Kiran Krishnan

After the webinar (watch it by clicking on the video above), Kiran was gracious enough to answer questions submitted by viewers when the webinar was live. Here are those questions and answers:

Leigh-Anne C. Is this something we should do during treatment or after?

Kiran Krishnan (KK): This will be a critical part of your treatment, so you would start it during.

Elena V. Thanks for your products!! I have methane sibo and am starting another round of antimicrobials. I started using megaigg, megaspore and restoreflora. My gut likes them. What products should take while taking antimicrobials can I continue use of megaigg, megaspore and restoreflora or should I add something else

KK: Yes, you can continue to use those while on antimicrobials. I would recommend adding in the MegaGuard to address bile flow issues, gastric emptying and HCL production. 

Pam M. Does Mega prebiotic have dairy in it? Or Casein?

KK: No, it doesn’t. Although the oligosaccharide is from dairy, there are no dairy proteins or fat in it. The oligosaccharides are purified extracts.

Ingrid W. If we are someone who can not take supplements easily and have to try micro doses. How long can we take micro doses of Mega IGG? Is it something you can stay on long term?

KK: Absolutely, there is no risk, only benefit. 

Pam M. Why are immunoglobulins low with leaky gut?

KK: Because of systemic inflammation and compromised immunity. 

Laurie B. P. Can SIBO ever truly be cured or is it life management once you’ve been diagnosed?

KK: I absolutely believe it can be cured. There is a mechanism that causes it and its not genetic. If we address that mechanism, it can be reversed. Unfortunately, more often than not, the root causes are not being addressed. 

Glaucia S. L. What are the best digestive enzymes and probiotic strains for SIBO? KK: Digest Gold from Enzymedica would be fine and use HU58, RestorFlora and Megasporebiotic for probiotics. 

Jeanette F.  Jeanette in Stockholm, Sweden here. Is dr Krishnan in touch with any Swedish researchers/MDs?

KK: Hi, not in Sweden.

Mary Kay A. Question: How will MegaPreBiotic affect me, given that oligosaccharides are the fodmaps to which I seem to be particularly sensitive?

KK: These are longer chains and should have less negative impact. However, go slow, use as little as ¼ of a scoop per day to start. But remember to use it after 4 weeks of the probiotic. If you have been on low FODMAP, your large intestinal bacterial are starving for fermentable carbohydrates, which are critical for maintaining gut and immune health. 

Marilyn M. Can one take the IgG product continuously with no side effects? Should it be discontinued gradually?

KK: You can absolutely take it continuously. Should you want to stop, you do not have to discontinue gradually. 

Glaucia S. L. What test is recommended to found out this problem?

KK: The problem is complex and multifactorial, if you are referring to leaky gut and barrier dysfunction. There isn’t a single test for it. You can rest assured that if you have health issues, there is a high likelihood that the gut lining is compromised. 

Robin L. C.  I had been taking Megaspore and Megaprebiotic for several months. On a recent GI Map my “Bacillus spp” was flagged high. Do you think that’s a problem? Can you overdo it with the spores?

KK: The GI Map test is archaic, inaccurate and not validated in any study. Their arbitrary flagging of strains as “high” or “low” is nonsensical. Bacillus is normally in the gut at 1X10^6 cfu/g of stool, so their threshold for “high” is way off. These strains are also transient, so they don’t accumulate beyond a certain level.

Marilyn M. I see that there are citrus flavinoids and lemonade flavoring in the Megamucsa. Will this trigger histamine reactions in sensitive people?

KK: We have not seen that at all. 

Susan G.I recently started a regime by my nutritionist for healing my gut. Started taking Aloe Vera Gel beginning of September; 2-3 Tbsp a day. I just got back my full Metabolic lab tests today, and my liver tests (AST/ALT) are extremely elevated (I am not at risk for hepatitis, I don’t drink any alcohol, and don’t take Tylenol). I searched online and it says that Aloe Vera Gel can cause adverse liver toxicity?!

KK: That may be true, but I haven’t researched aloe and liver health. Leaky gut is also a big driver of liver toxicity. It is important to use a clinically studied solution for gut healing, you should consider the Total Gut Restoration.

Robin L. C. Do you think that the GI Map is a reliable indicator for Zonulin? My symptoms say my gut is leaky, but zonulin marker is well within range. Also, I was on Megapore and Megaprebiotic for several months. My Akkermansia was still below detectable levels. Shouldn’t it be detectable by now?

KK: The test is virtually useless in detecting strains with any accuracy and zonulin is only partially correlated with leaky gut. Use a more accurate whole-genome sequencing test to more accurately detect to the species level. Tests are not the be all end all in functional medicine, follow your symptoms and how you feel as well. 

Marilyn M. Will your protocols help with longstanding autoimmune

KK: Leaky gut is a major driver of autoimmune conditions, the protocol is designed to fix leaky gut, so it should be an important part of supporting your immune system. 

May S. F.  I am currently taking megaspore and IGG for Sibo. Will I kill my good bacteria by consuming antibacterial foods like onions garlic and coconut oil, even if well tolerated? 

KK: Coconut oil will likely kill good bacteria, I would use is sparingly, the rest of the foods are ok.

Glaucia S. L. Having SIBO does it mean there is Leaky Gut?

KK: Almost certainly. 

May S. F.  And, is it true that sugar substitutes like Splenda can affect gut bacteria adversely, even affecting eyes?

KK: Not sure about eyes, but certainly gut diversity.

Glaucia S. L. Can we measure LPS in a blood test?

KK: In a lab, yes. Not in a doctors office. 

Marilyn M. Will the Mega Mycobalance assist in eliminating a systemic fungal infection?

KK: It is designed to do so. We have had success with it in people with localized and systemic issues. 

Sonja P.  Why does megaspore increase the keystone strains?

KK: Absolutely, then the addition of MegaPreBiotic increases them further. 

Ingrid W. If we can’t take Megaspore at a micro dose or Just Thrive – can we try the prebiotic instead to try to work on the gut? Can this be a back door way to recondition and build good bacteria when we have tried over months to get on the probiotics but it was too stimulating.

KK: Sure. There is no issue there. 

Karen P. N.  I am on a probiotic that was supposedly made for me based on the study of my stool sample. Can I add megasporebiotic and also your additional protocol while also on this custom probiotic? Can you use anything like Biocidin during this time for SIBO or will your protocol alone help SIBO?

KK: You can certainly use the total gut restoration as well, it will only help. Use that first and give it a single round (90 days), if the symptoms of SIBO are still present then, you can look at using biocidin.

Jordan P. what if you have Sibo? can this get rid of id?

KK: SIBO is multifactorial, this targets key underlying causes, there may be a need for other interventions, but try the system first and see how you do. 

Katie J-E. Is it ok to start with intestinal mega mucosa when starting spore probiotic or does it hinder your outcome

KK: It is perfectly ok.

Sonja P. Do you distribute your products in Europe too, i.e. Germany? I could only find products in the US.

KK: Yes, either from Romania or the UK. Look at

Eliza it ok to just take the megasporebiotic and megaiGG2000 or do i need the rebuild and reinforce too

KK: Ideally you would do all 3 steps, but if you do just the probiotic and MegaIGG, you will see significant benefit as well. 

Sonja P.  Do the spores settle in the colon or they are just transient – so they get excreted with a bowel movement?

They stay for about 21 days and then leave. 

Sonja P. I can barely tolerate any carbs. Do you recommend taking more than two capsules of megaspore in such cases?

KK: Go slow and build up to 2 caps. Once you are there, you can go beyond 2 to 3 or 4 to see if the extra dosing will help.

Michele V. Pimentel said not to take probiotics if we have SIBO, don’t add more bacteria to the situation. Don’t do this if we have SIBO?!

KK: He isn’t referring to spores and he doesn’t study probiotics. Spores can actually bring down the growth of bacteria in the small intestines. 

Katie J-E. What do you do if you have low lactobacillus buts have SIBO os ok to just do megaspore and not lactobacillus

KK: Megaspore increases your natural lactobacillus, so it will take care of that issue. 

Kristie R. Why are spore based probiotics listed as opportunistic in a GI Map?

KK: Because its an archaic test and is poorly designed. They clearly haven’t read studies on microbiome commensals and composition. Numerous studies clearly define bacillus as a commensal and a keystone genus. 

Jeanette F. Chronic constipation? Take full program?

KK: Yup. You should see improvement even in the first month. 

Katie J-E. How do you increase lactobacillus bacteria (especially for women) if they are low in lactobacillus but have SIBO and are taking megaspore

KK: Megaspore has been shown in a published study to increase lactobacillus. 

Sonja P. Is it possible that the spores could settle in the small intestine – when the conditions are favourable for the spores – like in case of SIBO?

KK: They do function in the small intestine, but once there they modulate the immune response and they bring down the growth of over-grown bacteria.

Glaucia S. L. How to revert it and have a healthy connexion with brain and gut?

KK: You have to fix leaky gut. 

Andrea Beth T. can they break through biofilm?

KK: Yes

Sonja P. Sometimes the spores can turn pathogenic, what helps the most from your experience to get the situation under control in such a case?

KK: They cannot turn pathogenic; this is a complete misnomer and simply false info that has been perpetuated by competitive probiotic companies. We would never develop and sell and product that could turn pathogenic. They have been completely gene sequenced, tested for virulence factors, etc. 

Sonja P. Is restore flora containing sacharomyces also good for constipation??

KK: It can be, yes. 

Sonja P. Do megaspore probiotics produce lactic acid?

KK: They produce L+ lactic acid which is then converted to butyrate and other short-chain fatty acids.

Sonja P. Do you have an idea why some people having SIBO can’t tolerate any probiotics and some do? Apart from lactobacillus strains that assists building up secondary bile salts. What are the main reasons?

KK: It likely depends on the nature of their overgrowth, what kinds of microbes are overgrown and how the immune system is responding to the presence of those microbes. 

Sonja P. Do you know why Epstein Barr virus causes slowing down of the motor migrating complex and initiating SIBO?

KK: I have not seen good evidence that EPV slows down the MMC. 

Kiran Krishnan SIBO SOS Q&A

Over the past few months, I’ve sat down with several digestion experts and asked them questions I had myself and questions submitted by YOU! I’ve rounded them all up here for you to watch.

But that’s not all… I’ve also included all the SIBO SOS™ exclusive discounts we have!

Enjoy the Q&A with each digestion expert!

Want to try products you learned about in this Q&A?

  • Microbiome Labs: use patient direct code “sibosos” when you register and code “digestionsos” for 15% off your first purchase
  • Bio-Botanical Research: use code “sibosos” for free shipping
  • Elemental Heal: use code “sibosos” for 10% off your first order
  • ibs-smart: find information on the blood test for IBS (no discount as this is a medical test, but your insurance may cover it!)

Looking for more products I recommend? Head over to the SIBO SOS® Shop! 

Kiran Krishnan (Microbiologist and Founder of Microbiome Labs)

Dr. Rachel Fresco (Master Herbalist and Creator of Bio-Botanical Research)

Dr. Michael Ruscio (Creator of Elemental Heal)

More info from Dr. Ruscio in this blog post.

Dr. Ilana Gurevich (Discussing Getting The Right Diagnosis)

More from Dr. Gurevich in this blog post.

Dr. Mona Morstein (No-Nonsense, In-Depth Q&A on SIBO and IBS)

Ani Pandit (From ibs-smart Test)

More info available here.

Some links included in this post are affiliate links. When you purchase using an affiliate link, SIBO SOS® earns a small commission (at no additional cost to you). This helps support our work. Thank you!

Everything You Need To Know About SIBO Testing

If you suspect Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO), the obvious question is: how do I begin SIBO testing?

But  – like everything else with SIBO! – the answer isn’t black and white.

There are multiple tests, ways to get tested, and the results aren’t a simple “positive or negative.”

Today, I want to share everything you need to know about accurate and accessible SIBO breath testing so you can feel empowered to move forward with treatment. 

Do I Need To Be Tested For SIBO?

If you have symptoms of SIBO like bloating, constipation or diarrhea, and pain, do you really need testing, or is it OK to just move ahead with treatment?

The short answer is YES!

According to Dr. Allison Siebecker, ND, “The symptoms of SIBO are nonspecific. There are maybe 35-40 diseases that could cause the exact same symptoms. Just because you have the symptoms does not mean you have SIBO. And we really need to know because the treatment is going to be different, very different between SIBO to something like lactose intolerance which can cause the exact same symptoms. 

The treatment for SIBO is antimicrobials which potentially could disturb a person’s microbiome. We want to be sure that we need to do those treatments if we’re going to do them. The treatment for lactose intolerance is taking lactase enzyme. We don’t need antimicrobials and changing of the diet. It’s very important to know if a person has it. There have been studies actually done on this now on how well can you diagnose SIBO based on symptoms and it was not well at all.”

Dr. Megan Taylor, ND, agrees: “So, often, we get diagnosed with SIBO after a long journey of having IBS symptoms, and we’re like, ‘Yes, that, that’s it. That must be it.’ And oftentimes, it is. But maybe it’s only a part of it. Maybe it’s only 50% of your symptoms, but the rest are due to something else. And that really needs to be addressed. Just this week, I had an example of somebody who thought it was just SIBO all along. It turned out they had Celiac disease. 

So, you want to make sure that whatever provider you’re seeing is doing that basic work to screen out some of those big conditions that can mimic SIBO—Celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease, certain particular food sensitivities or food allergies, those sorts of things.”

Not only is treating SIBO potentially damaging if you DON’T have the condition, but assuming it’s SIBO could mean overlooking the real cause of your symptoms. That’s why accurate testing is so important.

Don’t Rely On These Tests For SIBO | SIBO Testing

Inaccurate testing for SIBO is a huge issue! SIBO can only be accurately diagnosed through a breath test or jejunal aspiration during an upper endoscopy.  

According to Drs. Siebecker and Mona Morstein, ND, stool testing cannot diagnose SIBO, but is often ordered anyway. 

“There are a lot of docs who think a stool test could diagnose SIBO just because it’s of the intestines. But it can’t. The stool really represents best the very end of the large intestine. It doesn’t show bacterial overgrowth in a separate organ that’s way up above. The stool test can indicate something about the small intestine but they cannot diagnose small intestine bacterial overgrowth. If you see an overgrowth of bacteria in a stool test that diagnosis is large intestine bacterial overgrowth or LIBO,” Dr. Siebecker said. 

Dr. Morstein seconded this: “We must stop physicians from doing stool tests and saying this has any indication of what’s going on in the small intestine. [The colon] has 500,000 different bacteria. Say that we do a stool test, [saying] we’re reflecting any microbiome in the small intestine is scientifically completely wrong, completely inaccurate.”

Urine organic acids tests are also sometimes mistakenly used to test for SIBO: “I think [the urine organic acids test] is a really cool test. I love it. It indicates all kinds of things but it can’t technically diagnose SIBO. What it can do is indicate some bacterial metabolites, and if they’re in excess we know that there’s too many bacteria and overgrowth. But what it can’t do is distinguish between the large and the small intestine,” Dr. Siebecker said. 

Why Choose Breath Testing For SIBO

For accurate SIBO testing, the most common choice is a glucose or lactulose breath test. Breath tests are non-invasive, and can even be done at home. They’re affordable, even if your insurance won’t cover the test and you’re ordering it yourself.

And most importantly, breath tests correlate with symptoms AND with super-advanced small bowel deep-sequencing being done at research laboratories like Cedars-Sinai, according to Dr. Mark Pimentel, MD. 

“There’s been controversy about breath testing.” Dr. Mark Pimentel said, “People say, “Well, it’s not as accurate as culture” or “We don’t know if it means that…” But we [now] show that SIBO can be proven by deep sequencing—greater than 1000 bacteria per milliliter in the gut is SIBO—and that both of those correlate directly with 90-minute breath tests, meaning the breath test is valid. And the most important thing, they all interdigitate with symptoms. We can correlate with diarrhea, urgency and bloating with these markers.

The point is, for the first time, we’ve internally validated the breath test. Breath tests are valid. And they predict response to antibiotics.”

Watch this video from Gary Stapleton, founder of Aerodiagnostics Labs, to learn more about SIBO breath testing:

Now let’s dive into what “breath testing” really is.

Let’s start with a basic explanation of what breath testing is from Dr. Pimentel:

“When you do a breath test, you drink a sugar. And the sugar we prefer to use is lactulose. It’s a non-absorbed sugar. So it stays in the gut and gets all the way to the colon. So you can get a good flavor of what’s going on in the entire gut. 

When the sugar sees bacteria, they ferment it. When they ferment it, they produce gases. And we look for the gases that humans don’t produce. And the ones we’ve been looking for are hydrogen and methane. Until recently, just those two. 

So, when we see those rise early, meaning within 90 minutes, we know that it’s likely that those gases came from the small intestine.” 

Gary Stapleton, founder of Aerodiagnostics Labs, describes it this way: “What are we doing [with a breath test]? We’re collecting breath to determine, for SIBO testing, whether or not we have bacteria in the small intestine. So how would that possibly work? 

Well, the body, the human body doesn’t produce hydrogen or methane gas. Hydrogen and/or methane gas is only produced by bacteria fermenting or rotting. So what happens, and why we do a preparation for these tests—and we want to be very specific about that preparation because, if you’re not, you can get variable results that don’t match the clinical impressions. 

So, we prep for 24 hours, which is a very specific limited diet; followed by a 12-hour fast, which is typically overnight. It’s convenient for the patient. They wake up. And then, they have a breath collection kit. On a test, they have a collection kit. They’ll collect their breath with a closed capture device.”

Watch this short video (and sneak peek from the upcoming Digestion SOS™ Documentary Series) to see what the collection tubes look like and get tips for accurate testing from QuinTron Instruments (the creators of the equipment used for breath testing). 

You can order glucose breath tests directly from Aerodiagnostics. Lactulose test can be ordered by your physician. 

Interpreting Breath Tests

To put it simply (as Dr. Morstein did), “There is a great deal of grey interpretational area in SIBO testing. Absolutely not is it always clear yes or clear no.”

Once you’ve successfully completed your SIBO test, you might be discouraged to get back a confusing report that you can’t understand (and maybe your doctor is even mystified by it!).

According to Dr. Taylor, “We have to understand that this is not a perfect tool. Breath testing only gives us possible evidence of bacterial overgrowth. We should make sure that our providers who are interpreting our test have a lot of experience doing it or are at least up to date. 

Dr. Rezaie’s team out of Cedars-Sinai published that fantastic breath testing consensus guidelines that came out in 2017. That has been my go-to tool for being able to interpret breath testing in a nuanced way, being able to explain to patients “Gosh! No, your test is definitely positive by all the most conservative reads of the test” or “It’s kind of in that gray area borderline. We should be thinking about what else may be contributing to your symptoms as well.” 

If you need help finding an expert who can interpret a breath test, make sure you check out our list of experts, click here. 

Hydrogen Sulfide & Flat Line Results

Most breath tests look for three gases: hydrogen, methane, and carbon dioxide (as a control). 

Higher levels of hydrogen are correlated with diarrhea, and higher levels of methane are correlated with constipation. But some people also get a “flat line” result – what does that mean? 

According to Dr. Pimentel, it may be related to how hydrogen and methane interact in the intestines, and the presence of a third gas: hydrogen sulfide:

“Some people have a machine that only measures hydrogen. Others have hydrogen and methane.  And then there are people that  don’t even have carbon dioxide. Today, most people have a machine that measures all three. But I’m going to argue that a machine that measures four is even better. And that’s coming in a few more months. Here’s some data on them. 

We can distinguish bacteria [overgrowth] from human by using hydrogen, methane and now the new hydrogen sulfide. And it works like this: hydrogen-producing bacteria feed hydrogen to the methane producers, if you happen to have these characters in your gut. As a result, you produce methane. 

When methane is there and the methanogens are there, they’re eating a lot of hydrogen to make methane. Sometimes,  you get a flat line breath test because they’re eating it all up. They’re just consuming it more than they’re making the methane. But they get energy from this. And this is how the methanogens sustains themselves. They get energy from that. 

Now, the sulfate-producing bacteria, the new characters that we’re looking at, 5 hydrogens on the right to make one hydrogen sulfide, using up all the hydrogen. And this, we were always speculating, could be the flat line breath test because the flat line had no methane, no hydrogen at all, patients were having diarrhea and they were sick. 

And so we now realize that there’s another gas we haven’t done.”

Hopefully, hydrogen sulfide testing will be available within the next year.

Take a Breath!

Phew, I know this is a confusing and complex topic. I hope this post has been a useful resource for you!

If you’re looking for even more information on accurate testing for SIBO, plus treatments, underlying causes, and more – go browse through the SIBO SOS® library of intensive Masterclasses here. 

Vlog: Learning More About SIBO & IBS with Dr. Ken Brown, MD

IBS & SIBO SOS™ Summit Vlog

Today I want to share something I’m really excited about with you: our very first IBS and SIBO SOS® video blog (AKA a vlog!)

This is an excerpt from Dr. Ken Brown, MD’s presentation for the next IBS & SIBO SOS® Summit in 2020! Dr. Brown is the creator of Atrantil, the supplement that has helped so many people deal with constipation and bloating. 

Watch the vlog and let us know what you think. 

Own the Masterclass recording which includes the video, audio, and full transcript for your highlighting and note taking! click here.

P.S. Please leave a comment and let us know – do you like the vlogs? Do you prefer more written content or more videos?

P.P.S. Don’t forget – the Workshop with Dr. Brown gives YOU the opportunity to ask your specific questions! Add the Masterclass recording which includes the video, audio, and full transcript for your highlighting and note taking to your SIBO SOS® Library, click here.

Low-FODMAP Expert Opinions

If you have Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) or IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) you may have heard of the Low-FODMAP diet.

It’s a controversial diet plan, and for every practitioner who recommends it, there’s another who doesn’t.

Today, my goal is to share some of these opinions with you so you can make your own decision.

Here are some of the pearls I’ve gathered from deep-dive sessions with SIBO experts over the past 12 months.

Dr.Sheila Dean, DSc, RDN: This Is The Low-FODMAP Diet

Dr. Sheila Dean: “First, let me say that there’s a lot of different approaches to gut health. The FODMAP approach, or the low FODMAP diet approach is a very popular approach just because there’s so much empirical data. There’s so many testimonials to the fact that it works. There’s just so many people that testify to the fact that they do well with fairly limited research.

FODMAP is an acronym. It’s not food map, it is really FODMAP. An acronym that stands for—get ready—fermentable O for oligosaccharides, D for disaccharides…

Disaccharides are basically two sugars—the word di-, the prefix di-, and then the saccharide refers to sugar. When you stick two sugars together, we call that a disaccharides. You might see that in things like milk sugar. Milk sugar is a disaccharide like lactose.

We’ve got, let’s see, fermentable oligasaccharides, disaccharides, M for monosaccharide (which is just “one sugar”), and then P for polyols.

Polyols will be things like sorbitol or manitol (which more people might be a little bit familiar with—you know, you see these things in like sugar-free gum or sugar-free mints and even in some medications where they’re trying to avoid the use of regular sugar or even corn syrup).

When you put that together, F-O-D-M-A-P, FODMAP, that’s how you get the acronym.

A low FODMAP is a 2 to 6 weeks elimination diet, the goal is to remove foods that are considered high FODMAP to assess whether these foods are actually problematic for the person with this altered gut problem like IBS.”

Angela Pifer, Nutritionist: Eating FODMAPs Doesn’t Make SIBO Worse

Angela Pifer: “I think the problem is that, anytime people eat FODMAPs and see a reaction, especially with SIBO, they think SIBO is getting worse. “

Shivan Sarna:  “It’s a reasonable assumption.”

Angela Pifer: “It is… but the symptoms are affected, SIBO is not getting worse.  On the studies that we look at, three weeks or four weeks, six weeks on a high FODMAP diet, methane does not get worse and hydrogen doesn’t go up. So it’s just the symptoms [that get worse].

The fear is that SIBO is getting worse. They’re going to keep restricting and restricting.

At the SIBO Symposium this year, they had a lovely nutrition track . Half that track was around anxiety around food, fear around food, and eating disorders. I’m not saying that everyone that’s on a FODMAP diet has an eating disorder by any means. When you put somebody on that restrictive of a diet, and they get on that for a long period of time, there’s going to be food fear.   It’s going to be disordered eating to a degree because of all of the anxiety being bred.”       

Dr. Mark Pimentel, MD: “The Low-FODMAP Diet is Unhealthy”

Dr. Mark Pimentel: “The low FODMAP diet is unhealthy. Now, some of your viewers may not like me saying that. But even those who purport the low FODMAP diet or discover the low FODMAP diet recognize that you have to have a reintroduction phase because it’s going to hurt people over time potentially.

This was presented at the American College of Gastroenterology about a month and a half ago where they showed the people who were sustained on a low FODMAP diet for more than three months started to have measurable nutritional deficiencies.

You can’t stay on low FODMAP forever, period.”

Dr. Michael Ruscio, DC: Don’t Be Scared of Low-FODMAP

Dr. Michael Ruscio: “We learn about how gut bacteria are important, how important it is to feed your gut bacteria and have high levels of diversity.

While all that is true, sometimes, what ends up happening is people hear about the low FODMAP diet and how the low FODMAP diet can starve bacteria, and then they get scared that I shouldn’t go on a low FODMAP diet because it’s going to starve my gut bacteria or cause me to lose gut bacteria and they’re supposed to be so healthy. People are very confused about what to do.

To say it very simply, I would not be concerned at all—no, I shouldn’t say “at all.” I would not be very concerned about a low FODMAP diet impact on your gut microbiota. Let me outline a few reasons why that is.

One, there’s been a few studies [that] essentially found that a low FODMAP diet has the ability to help the serotonin cell density—so the number of serotonin cells that you have in the gut—become more like that of healthy controls.

They took IBS patients, put them on a low FODMAP diet, compared them to patients who were healthy, and they found that patients with IBS had lower levels of serotonin cells in the gut compared to healthy controls. The low FODMAP diet allow those numbers of serotonin cells to become more normal over time. And this is found not only in the large intestine, but also in the small intestine.

Repair Your Intestines with a Low-FODMAP Diet

You may be able to, in part, repair your intestines with a low FODMAP diet through helping to facilitate serotonin cells in your guts—serotonin cells are important for motility, which I’m sure you’ve talked a lot about in the summit—and also for nociception or for pain reception.

Quickly on motility, one of the mechanisms that may cause SIBO is your motility (or the ability of food to move through the intestines) is slowed down. If you don’t have adequate movement, food kind of sticks around, bacteria can grow (just like bacteria can grow in stagnant water, but doesn’t tend to grow in flowing water. Then, you can have SIBO.

One of the things that we see on the low FODMAP diet is a restoration of serotonin cell density which may be helpful.

Now, we don’t have any studies yet that have studied the motility effects of the low FODMAP diet. We can’t fully say that this is translated all the way through to a clinical endpoint. However, at least the initial mechanism data that we have is promising that there is reparative utility to the low FODMAP diet.     

But not only that, there’s been at least one study that has shown that leaky gut decreases on a low FODMAP diet, and as I mentioned, before another study showing a decrease in histamine on a low FODMAP diet.”

Rebecca Coomes, SIBO Chef: It’s Not Just About The Food

Rebecca Coomes: “The first mistake or challenge that I see people make and experience is thinking it’s all about food—and only about food. So rather than seeing that your diet and your nutrition is one of many components of recovering your gut health, they just focus on food because it’s one thing we can control as a SIBO patient.

What I see commonly is people get fixated on what they’re eating, or what they’re not eating, a lot of fear creeps in, trepidation around reintroduction of foods.      

I myself experienced that. Scared to come off the very restrictive SIBO diet I was on and to start eating other foods. I was terrified of things like bananas. You know, a banana isn’t a bad thing. It’s just perhaps the quantity you ate or the time that you ate it. I didn’t appreciate how what we’re eating and our tolerance to it changes as we go through the SIBO diet. What you can tolerate today doesn’t mean that’s all you will ever, ever tolerate.       

And we know that food can be delicious. It’s our life force. It’s our nourishment. If we’re stuck eating the same 5 to 10 foods for years, how can we expect our microbiome to recover and be healthy and diverse? It’s not all about the food.”

Make The Choice That’s Right For You!

As you can see, the experts don’t all agree about low-FODMAP diets

No two cases of SIBO are the same – which means we all need a customized treatment plan.

There’s no one protocol or diet that works for everyone: healing SIBO is a different path for each of us.

I believe the answer to finding the right path for YOU  lies in getting as much information from the experts as we can. Then, we can lean into our own innate wisdom to find what works for us and what doesn’t.

I created the SIBO SOS® Masterclass Summit Series to help bring you ALL the latest information on SIBO – right to your home.

Start watching, reading and listening now, click here.

How To Overcome SIBO Symptoms w/ Dr. Megan Taylor

Finally getting to the route of your SIBO symptoms is usually more than just heading to the doctor for a blood test. There are so many other factors and indicators at play! From DNA tests and gene markers to vitamin deficiencies and dehydration, a little exploration into your health can go a long way.

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

Managing Your Sibo Symptoms

Continuing my conversation with Dr. Megan Taylor, in this episode, we’re talking about how to help manage your SIBO symptoms. Treating SIBO can involve a number of different approaches, starting with, but not limited to, completing one of those ultra-popular DNA tests. These DNA tests not only give you ancestry information, but they’re also full of gene indicators and variants that will help you figure out your current health problems, and insight into whether you’ll be more susceptible to certain conditions in the future.

SIBO patients can have a hard time breaking down, digesting, and utilizing the food and drinks we consume. We talk about what the impact of being unable to break down stress neurotransmitters has on our body – as it’s often more subtle than you might think.

SIBO Supplementation is Integral

Vitamins and minerals should be supplemented, for quite a lot of the population, but in particular for SIBO patients. We should be looking at including extra B vitamins and iron into our daily routine. Often, and because of the way SIBO presents itself, there might be a worry of having too many B vitamins in our system – but current research shows that the body is able to expel what extra it has with no impact on the system.

What You Should And Shouldn’t Drink With SIBO

SIBO patients might find that they’re chronically thirsty and, even though they drink plenty of water every day, their thirst is real and constant. This is due to a disconnect within the adrenal glands, and Megan recommends using colorful sea salt in water a few times a day to help out sodium levels.

Finally, Megan shares how coffee impacts the adrenal glands of SIBO patients and whether or not we should be drinking coffee every day. Current research indicates that, in moderation, coffee is actually good for us… but does that apply when you have SIBO?

Do you drink coffee every day? How do you supplement your vitamins and minerals? Have you ever taken a DNA test like 23andme?

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode of SIBO SOS®:

  • What gene variants will make you more or less susceptible to certain conditions
  • Why SIBO patients have a hard time breaking down stress neurotransmitters and what impact this has
  • What high B vitamin levels can indicate for SIBO patients
  • What vitamins and supplements you should take when you have SIBO
  • How much water SIBO patients should drink every day
  • Why everyone should be including extra trace minerals in their water
  • What the connection between coffee and your adrenal glands is



“With a b12 deficiency, you end up not having as much cell division happening, so you end up with bigger cells because cells haven’t been able to go through the division process.” (9:49)

“Many SIBO patients have adrenal and salt balance issues in our bodies. Our adrenal glands are helpful for regulating salt in our blood. And that can contribute to hydration and not being able to hold onto our water.” (16:03)

“All the research out there is telling us that coffee in moderation, just like alcohol in moderation, can actually be really helpful. There’s a lot of antioxidants, among other things, in coffee.” (19:13)



Join the SIBO SOS 2019 Speaker Series

Find Dr. Megan Taylor Online | Facebook

Learn more about SIBO SOS Online | Facebook

Follow Shivan on Facebook | Twitter | Vimeo

Join the SIBO SOS™ Facebook Community

Get access to the complete SIBO SOS™ course catalog

3 Things To Think About When It’s Not SIBO

I’ve noticed a big trend in our SIBO SOS™ Community Facebook group. I grabbed a few screenshots to show you what I mean…

What do you do when your Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth breath test is negative but you STILL have symptoms?

Today I’m digging into this important topic and sharing some ideas and suggestions.

False SIBO Breath Test Results Aren’t The Only Possibility

3 Things To Think About When It’s Not SIBO

Yes, there is a possibility that your SIBO breath test results were either a false positive or a false negative.

But many times, people jump to the conclusion that if they have SIBO symptoms, they must have SIBO.

According to Dr. Megan Taylor, ND this is a big mistake:

“For my patients who’ve been doing this for a really long time, one of the biggest mistakes I think we make is obsessing about the breath test. It’s like I have to talk so many folks off the ledge about their positive breath test. And part of it is interpretation.

We have to understand that this is not a perfect tool. Breath testing only gives us evidence possibly of bacterial overgrowth. We should make sure that our providers who are interpreting our test have a lot of experience doing it or are at least up to date.

So, really focusing on that and not obsessing about getting a negative. We know lots of things can influence that breath test, including just your physiology.”

So while you should always discuss the possibility of a false test result with your practitioner, you may also want to consider these 3 other possible causes of your symptoms.

#1 Is It Parasites, Not SIBO?

Many of us falsely believe that we can’t have a parasite because we don’t travel out of the country or drink unfiltered water, but according to parasite expert Dr. Anne Hill, ND, this is a big mistake!

Dr. Hill taught me that parasites can happen to truly anyone (no matter how careful you are!) Exposure to parasites is just part of being a human.

Parasite symptoms can mimic SIBO symptoms including:

  • Bloating
  • Constipation or diarrhea
  • Food sensitivities
  • Pain

Parasites can also occur alongside SIBO and can explain why you treated SIBO, got a negative breath test, but still have symptoms.

Want to learn more about parasites? Dr. Hill was a past speaker at the SIBO SOS™ Speaker Series. When you join the series right now, you get instant access to her workshop so you can learn more about diagnosing and treating common parasites. Learn more here. 

#2 Food Sensitivities Make You Just As Miserable As SIBO

Is the list of foods you can tolerate getting shorter and shorter?

It could be SIBO causing this – but it could also be food sensitivities (not the same as food allergies).

Food sensitivities aren’t an immune activation response (like a food allergy is). According to Dr. Nirala Jacobi, ND, food sensitivities cause a local and systemic effect. She says the most common categories of food sensitivities are:

  • Histamines
  • Salicylates
  • Oxalates

A sensitivity to any of these food groups can cause issues like pain, bloating, diarrhea, gas, constipation, headaches, and rashes (among other symptoms).

So what causes food sensitivities?

Food sensitivities can be a sign of yeast overgrowth (more on that in just a minute) and can also be a result of damage to the intestines caused by past SIBO or other issues.

If you’re dealing with food sensitivities, we have some great resources in the Speaker Series for you! Learn more here.

#3 SIFO Sounds & Looks Like SIBO

There’s another condition that looks and sounds like SIBO (literally) – it’s called Small Intestine Fungal Overgrowth (SIFO).

SIFO is SIBO’s doppelganger. Both conditions happen when a normal resident of your gut (bacteria in the case of SIBO, yeast in the case of SIFO) overgrows where it shouldn’t: the small intestine.

They can both cause the same symptoms.

You can even have both SIFO and SIBO at the same time.

But here’s the key difference: they require different treatments!

It can be really hard to tell based on symptomatology is you have SIBO, SIFO, or both – but there is testing available, and more importantly: effective treatments for both.

I really believe SIFO is big missing piece of the “why don’t I feel better?” puzzle for many people.

You can learn more and get access to the Speaker Series here.

Don’t Give Up – Ever!

I know how devastating it can be to get test results that don’t match how you feel.

You start to wonder: “Is it actually all just in my head?”

Let me be the one to remind you: no, it’s not just in your head!

SIBO, IBS, leaky gut… these are tricky conditions to diagnose and treat. It’s not “open and shut” cases.

We’re here to support you, provide you with new idea, information, and inspiration, and guide you along in your journey.

Don’t give up,


P.S. I’m very proud of what we’ve put together for the 2019 Speaker Series. We have some of the very best SIBO experts in the world sharing the latest information. If you haven’t considered joining the Speaker Series before, NOW is the time to do it. Learn more here.

sibo course

You can have regular, daily bowel movements and still be constipated. Indeed, regular movements are something we should all strive for, but when you’re still experiencing pain and discomfort in your abdomen, you might still have stool in the colon. Today, I’m continuing my conversation with the wonderful Dr. Megan Taylor, about how to treat constipation, particularly in children.

Listen To The Podcast Here:

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

Megan explains how there are different types of abdominal massage, some you can even do yourself, that help to loosen the stools in your intestines. When used regularly, these methods can help treat, and eventually prevent, constipation. At the very least, you’ll feel like your bowel movements have been improved.

We also talk about how important it is to find your perfect healthcare “dream team.” Of course, you should have a primary physician, but you can also include professionals like massage therapists, acupuncturists, nutritionists, mental health therapists, and others. And it’s so important to practice self-care, as well – including techniques like meditation and yoga can have a very positive impact on your gut health.

Finally, Megan explains why she likes to use testing as a diagnostic tool. She says that knowing what you’re treating is more beneficial than a trial and error approach.

Have you built a healthcare team for yourself to cover all aspects of your health? Do you have regular self-care practices you participate in? Have you ever tried abdominal massage?

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode:

  • How visceral manipulation and other methods of abdominal massage can help relieve constipation
  • How self-massage can assist in improving your bowel movements
  • Why you might need to see more than one professional to get the right healthcare for you
  • Who your medical “dream team” should consist of
  • What benefit acupuncture can have to your overall health and why you should consider it, even if you’re afraid of needles
  • How our gut health is connected to our mental health
  • What the connection between probiotics and prokinetics is
  • Why children with SIBO are easier to treat than adults and what the treatment approach is



“Most folks don’t have just one thing going on, sadly. It would make our lives so much easier [if we did]. We are at least going to have 2, 3, 4 things going on that are contributing to our symptoms, so we need to know what all those are.” (5:13)

“One important point I should probably mention: You could have a bowel movement every day and still have lots of stool in your colon.” (12:13)

“I like testing. I don’t like treating in the dark. I found that we end up trying a whole lot of things and we don’t get at what’s gonna work right away, as quickly. I can’t say that testing guarantees that, but it gets us closer.” (17:25)



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The SIBO - Candida Connection: What You Should Know About Fungal Overgrowth

SIFO and candida workshop with Ami Kapadia, MD

Lately, I’ve had candida on my mind.

Not just because I have a Live Workshop coming up with Dr. Ami Kapadia all about fungal overgrowth (aka Candida or Small Intestine Fungal overgrowth (SIFO))…

But also because treating my own fungal overgrowth was a major turning point in my own health.

See, I didn’t realize SIFO could cause the SAME symptoms as SIBO…. I was just looking for the typical candida symptoms (like white tongue and sugar cravings).

But I’m getting ahead of myself now. Let’s go back to the beginning and walk through SIFO one step at a time.

SIFO: Small Intestine Fungal Overgrowth

SIFO stands for Small Intestine Fungal Overgrowth.

Just like with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO), SIFO happens when fungal organisms overgrow in the small intestine.

SIFO = Candida

Most SIFO is caused by an overgrowth of the Candida albicans.

It’s 100% normal to have Candida in your body. It should be living in and on your skin and mucous membranes.

But sometimes, the Candida overgrows and gets out of control (we’ll talk about why in just a minute).

SIFO Symptoms Mimic SIBO Symptoms

The most important thing SIBO patients need to know is that they might also have SIFO.

According to Dr. Ami Kapadia, MD, it’s basically impossible to tell the difference between SIBO and SIFO based on symptoms alone.

Bloating, food intolerances, pain – they can all be caused by SIFO and SIBO – alongside symptoms outside the digestive tract (like brain fog).

This can explain why your symptoms stick around even after you’ve successfully treated SIBO – it could be SIFO sneaking up on you.

Risk Factors For SIFO

Here’s what’s even more tricky: SIBO and SIFO also have many of the SAME risk factors.

Here’s what puts you at increased risk of SIFO:

  • Motility disorders (gastroparesis, Migrating Motor Complex dysfunction)
  • Acid suppressing drugs (like proton pump inhibitors and H2 blockers)
  • Pancreatic enzyme deficiency
  • Antibiotic use
  • Prior GI surgeries (especially colectomy)
  • Current use of opioids

What To Do If You Suspect SIFO

If you have SIBO (now or in the past), you should be thinking about SIFO, too.

If you are ready to learn more, I hope you’ll join me for a free Facebook Live Q&A session with Dr. Kapadia on May 22, 2019 at 4 PM Eastern.

SIFO, Candida, & SIBO Q&A with Dr. Ami Kapadia
SIBO SOS™ Community Facebook Group
.May 22, 2019 at 4 PM Eastern

Mark your calendars!

P.S. Not a member of our free private Facebook Group?  Request to join to access the Q&A with Dr. Kapadia  (it’s free) here.

sibo course

For some people, a SIBO diagnosis is a one and done treatment plan. For others, SIBO can be recurring and chronic, leading to lifelong symptoms and the need to make long-term changes to your life. Today’s guest, Dr. Megan Taylor, has had symptoms of SIBO since she was a child, but after finally getting a diagnosis in her 20s, started taking back control of her life.

Listen To The Podcast Here:

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

Megan works with children and adults to help them get to the bottom of their gastrointestinal issues, including SIBO and IBS. She believes that there is a lot of relief in finally getting a diagnosis of SIBO, because once you have one, you can start to treat and live with the condition. However, because of its nature, a SIBO diagnosis is far from easy, especially when it’s a recurrent condition.

A chronic diagnosis can come after a variety of tests and physical exams are performed. Megan’s was personally diagnosed after she had a “small bowel follow through” that declared she had a blockage in her small intestine. While she was disheartened to learn this was something she would have for her entire life, she knew she could manage it.

What made the difference for Megan was accepting her condition. When she learned to accept the body she has, instead of constantly striving to change it, she finally began to heal. By using both short-term and long-term changes, she has managed to successfully manage her SIBO for many years.

We talk about what some of these changes are, highlighting the importance of dietary changes to help control SIBO symptoms. Megan shares information about antimicrobials and prokinetics, as well, explains why these are both good to include in your routine, and, maybe most vitally, how to introduce them safely.

Do you have chronic SIBO? Have you introduced any prokinetics, herbal or otherwise, into your diet to help control your SIBO symptoms? What dietary changes have you made to help manage your SIBO?

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode:

  • What the journey from SIBO diagnosis to treatment is
  • Why SIBO can become a recurrent condition
  • What a small bowel follow through is and what it can tell you
  • How to live with and treat a chronic condition, such as recurrent SIBO
  • What changes you need to make in your life, both long and short term, to make a chronic condition more manageable
  • Why you need to come to terms with the fact that you have SIBO
  • How dietary modifications can have a positive impact on symptoms of SIBO
  • What medication is available and why it’s important to find one that works with your body
  • What herbal prokinetic options are available and how much you should take
  • How you can make prokinetics more manageable for your body



“I think the most important thing when you first get diagnosed with SIBO is to understand that SIBO is not really a diagnosis, right? SIBO happens as a result of some other underlying condition.” (2:48)

“You can live the life you want to live – with a chronic case of SIBO.” (6:30)

“If you struggle with constipation, and that’s kinda the big symptom that you’re working with with your SIBO… People with constipation really, really struggle with prokinetics. And there’s a lot of good, sciency stuff we could get into to explain why, but that build up of pressure as a result of constipation often will contribute to the tendency to develop reflux.” (18:56)

This episode is sponsored by Just Thrive Probiotic & Antioxidant



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sibo course

Today on the show I’m talking to Dr. Kenneth Brown on what methane in cows can teach us about SIBO.

There’s no easy way to say it: Bloating causes more pain and discomfort for people than loose stools or constipation. And in the same vein, it’s more beneficial for our bodies if we treat the root cause of bloating before treating for the symptoms of the colon.

Listen To The Podcast Here:

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

Today’s guest, Dr. Kenneth Brown, is a gastroenterologist from Plano, Texas who runs a busy practice where he treats patients suffering with symptoms of bloating and abdominal pain. He has been instrumental in discovering the link between research into methane production in cattle and symptoms of SIBO in humans. Ken has used this information to develop the first all-natural supplement to help treat symptoms of methane production and SIBO.

Atrantil comprises only three natural ingredients that work together symbiotically to reduce methane production in the gut. If you’ve been suffering from bloating for only a short while, Atrantil will work a lot quicker than if you’ve been dealing with SIBO symptoms for many years. And many people who have successfully reduced their bloating like to continue taking a maintenance dosage of the supplement.

Atrantil is not only beneficial for those suffering from bloating, constipation, diarrhea, and other digestional issues. This supplement can also help people who show signs of gluten intolerance, rosacea, and other skin conditions, as well.

In this episode, we talk about what causes bloating and how you can start treating it at home, without any additional supplementation. We also look at why modern antibiotics aren’t always the best option when it comes to treating SIBO. Finally, we compare SIBO to SIFO and discuss the differences between bacterial and fungal overgrowth in the gut.

Do you suffer from bloating on a regular or semi-regular basis? How does your diet impact your gut health? What are you doing to combat the symptoms of your SIBO?  

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode:

  • How the research into reducing methane in cows lead to a breakthrough for SIBO
  • How the 3 ingredients that make up Atrantil work together to reduce methane production
  • Why it depends on how long you’ve had symptoms of SIBO for the Atrantil supplements to start having a positive impact
  • How can Atrantil help treat other symptoms like rosacea and gluten intolerance
  • Why our modern day antibiotics don’t often work against gut bacteria
  • Why you will feel so much better when you treat the bloating before you treat the symptoms of the colon
  • What type of diet will work best to help reduce symptoms of bloating
  • What the difference between SIBO and SIFO is



“Most of the people [in the clinical trial] started seeing a significant result between 10-20 days.” (7:33)

“We do know that if we treat SIBO, a lot of other issues get better.” (12:08)

“I think that bloating is probably the single biggest problem that really affects people. They can handle a little of loose stools, they can handle some constipation, but it’s the bloating that really is the disruptor.”(17:02)

“I would say that the majority of people that believe they have a Candida problem, it’s probably a bacterial overgrowth and we’ll treat that first. If they don’t respond, then we start thinking, well, maybe there is a small component of this fungus.” (21:18)  



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The Connection Between SIBO, IBS, IDB & Crohn’s w/ Dr. Ilana Gurevich

IBS is the most common GI disorder worldwide and SIBO tops the charts as the #1 cause of it. But what about those people who have Crohn’s or other inflammatory bowel diseases? I’m continuing my discussion with Dr. Ilana Gurevich by getting deeper into the different diagnoses of SIBO, IBS, and IBD.

Listen To The Podcast Here:

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

Dr. Ilana Gurevich is a naturopathic doctor specializing in gut diseases. Through careful stool analysis, sometimes even sending your stools to a specialist, her bold approach to treatment will help you solve your IBD issues. Though she often prescribes antibiotic treatments for SIBO, Dr. Ilana also prioritizes herbs and herbal treatments for her patients, sometimes in multiple courses. She also uses her background in acupuncture to help give a complete picture of your body’s health to help solve your IBD problems.

In this episode,  you’ll learn about the bacteria and fungus growth present in nearly 100% of Crohn’s Disease patients. You’ll also find out the truth behind testing stool samples – it’s not always enough to poop in a cup and look at it. We also talk about acupuncture and how this ancient Chinese healing art can be used to treat your gut problems. Have you ever tried acupuncture? How much water do you drink everyday? What’s your relationship with caffeine?  

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode:

  • What are the differences between SIBO, IBS, and IBD
  • What bacteria and fungus are present in nearly all people who have Crohn’s disease
  • Why stool tests don’t always give the entire picture of your bowel health
  • Where you can pick up parasites and how you can avoid them
  • How acupuncture can help with motility
  • How much water you should be drinking every single day
  • What the best source of caffeine is



“They just came out with a study about 6 or 7 months ago where they did stool cultures on inflammatory bowel disease patients and their families and what they found is this triad of two bacterias and a fungus that are all present in almost 100% of Crohn’s patients.” (5:26) “I see a lot of IBS patients, most of them don’t have IBD, most of them have some IBS within their IBD.” (14:03) “I cannot explain to you how much chronic disease stems from the mouth.” (27:16)  


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Get access to the complete SIBO SOS™ course catalog

This will save you time, money, and energy if you have SIBO or IBS.

It’s been 4 years since I was diagnosed with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth.

Back then, I was bloated, confused, and overwhelmed.

I felt like SIBO had taken over my life… and I just wanted to get the answers I needed to get better so I could get my life back…

It wasn’t easy, but I sought out all the experts. I examined every angle – and I tried everything (yes, including the elemental diet!)

Today, I want to share 3 things I wish I had known when I was first diagnosed with SIBO.

If I had only known then what I know now…

I can’t, but you can!

#1 SIBO Is Chronic  – But It’s OK

When I was first diagnosed, I thought having SIBO was like getting the flu. I thought it was going to suck for a few days, I’d take the right medicine, get some rest, get better, and move on with my life.

Nope… not exactly.

I learned SIBO is actually a chronic condition for most people. Why? Because SIBO is the result of another underlying cause (in that way, it’s more like a symptom of your underlying cause).

Some people have underlying causes for their SIBO that can be treated and resolved. But most of us have underlying causes that will be with us forever:

  • Post-infectious IBS (aka autoimmune IBS caused by food poisoning)
  • Lyme disease or other underlying infections like Epstein-Barr
  • Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome
  • MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome)  or other histamine issues
  • Structural problems or past abdominal surgeries that have altered the gut (anyone out there missing their ileocecal valve?!?)
  • And many more!

When I first learned this, I was devastated. I just wanted to get rid of SIBO and move on with my life.

But after some reflection, it actually brought me a lot of peace and relief.

I learned that every time I had a setback or a day with bad symptoms, it wasn’t a personal failing on my part. It was just part of the condition.

Started to thinking of it the way I’d think about an old foot injury I had. Years later, sometimes that foot pain STILL flares up. I can’t do certain things or it will hurt.

But I also know what to do if my foot DOES start hurting again. I’ve been through it before. Knowing it will get better in a couple of days if I rest it.

When I realized it was the same thing with SIBO… it was like fireworks going off in my brain.

I wish they told EVERYONE this when they got diagnosed. It would have saved me so much frustration and disappointment.

#2 You’re Not Alone  – There are MILLIONS Of Us

I used to have a lot of shame and embarrassment around my digestive problems and I didn’t want to talk about them – even with my husband or my closest girlfriends.

I was even embarrassed of the name Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth. So not sexy! Bacteria  – yuck.

But the deeper I got into researching this condition (and IBS, too) the more I realized – there is nothing to be ashamed about.

Our culture teaches us that:

  1. Bathroom stuff is private (don’t talk about it!)
  2. Sickness is something to be ashamed about (so fake that smile!)

Once I got rid of my own shame and was open about my health, I found out pretty much everybody has some sort of digestive issue.

It’s just part of life  – and the more open we are about it, the less people have to suffer.

Once I got comfortable with talking about my own problems, walls came down, I connected more deeply with the people around me, and I found an amazing community online of people going through the same thing as me.  

(Feeling alone? Come join our SIBO SOS™ Community Facebook Group!)

I think I have been able to get healthier (physically and mentally) because I’ve worked through the shame and embarrassment and found a community of other people in the same situation.

We are all #SIBOSuperheroes!

#3 Nothing Lasts Forever (Including a Negative Breath Test)

I worked really hard to treat SIBO when I was first diagnosed, and I was ecstatic when I re-tested and finally had a negative breath test result!

But – as we know – SIBO has a bad habit of coming back. Because I have post-infectious IBS and adhesions, I’m even more prone to relapses. I was recently treated for a relapse of SIBO.

What causes SIBO to relapse? It really depends on your underlying cause. Because one of my underlying causes is post-infectious IBS, I have to use a prokinetic to prevent relapses. If I loosen up on my prokinetic use, I’ll have a SIBO flare.

But it’s not just that SIBO can come back – what works (and doesn’t work) can also change over time.

For example – lots of people get immediate relief from switching to a low-FODMAP diet. But over time, it usually stops working as well. And (for most people), long-term low-FODMAP diets wind up doing more harm than good.

Your body can develop tolerances to herbs used long-term and prokinetics, too. What worked the first time might not work the 2nd time.

Every time I’ve re-treated my SIBO, it has been a little different than the past times – that’s why continuing education is so important for SIBO patients.

The IBS & SIBO Journey

The day I was diagnosed with SIBO was a happy day. I was so relieved to finally know “what was wrong.”

Days and weeks after, though, were so frustrating. I felt confused, hopeless, and overwhelmed.

I don’t want anyone else to have to feel that way!


  • Instead of confused, I understand exactly what’s going on in my body
  • Rather than hopeless, I have a plan to treat my SIBO (and prevent relapses)
  • Instead of overwhelmed, I feel empowered

Now, I know what to do to get better.

Learn With Me

Newly diagnosed with SIBO or IBS (or even just suspect that’s what you’re dealing with)? I’ve been where you are – and I made it to the other side.

I want to guide you to the other side too – it is my calling in life to help other people with SIBO get relief.

Here’s how I can help you right now: The SIBO SOS® Masterclass Summit.

To be honest – I wish I had named this the “SIBO Solutions Series” – because that’s what the 10 SIBO experts teaching are doing: sharing solutions for relief from SIBO.

There are someone to cover every topic I have found to be vital to healing from SIBO – parasites, hormones, root causes, probiotics, candida, the brain-gut connection, and more. It’s not just “theory” – it’s real information you can put to use right now.

It took me 4+ years to learn all of this – but you’re getting it all in just 10 months. (That’s the benefit of having someone who has been through it all as your guide.)


There Is Hope For IBS & SIBO

I’ve been where you are right now – and I want to help you get the answers you need to get relief, and GET YOUR LIFE BACK FROM SIBO!!

Won’t you join us? This is your chance to join before the next event.

>> Join the SIBO SOS® Masterclass Summit Series <<

P.S. Sick of SIBO being the focus of your life?? Read this inspiring note we got from Beverly:

“First, thanks for being SIBO rock stars and bringing us this info. I hesitated to sign up because I am so tired of SIBO and other conditions being the focus of my life. But when you came out with the payment plan (and didn’t charge extra for this option –thank you) I really couldn’t resist. Just watched the lecture on parasites, and wow, I made the right choice.” – Sally

sibo course

When it comes to treating symptoms of SIBO, many doctors will have a three-pronged approach. First, treat aggressively with either herbal or pharmaceutical antibiotics, then direct dietary intervention and motility agents, before filling the GI tract with the healthiest food and supplements to repair the lining. I’m talking with Dr. Ilana Gurevich about her approach to SIBO treatment and what she recommends for her patients.

Listen To The Podcast Here

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

About Dr. Ilana Gurevich

Dr. Ilana Gurevich is a naturopathic physician and acupuncturist working in Portland, Oregon.

She specializes in IBD (Irritable Bowel Disease) and SIBO, along with other gastrointestinal disorders. Dr. Guervich takes a bold approach to treating her patients, often recommending they reintroduce onions and garlic immediately following their cleanse to determine if these will cause the patient to have a reaction.

We’re not only talking about what SIBO is and the methods Dr. Ilana Gurevich applies, we’re also exploring the wonderful world of homemade yogurt… and Dr. Ilana shares her famous homemade yogurt recipe.

Trust me, you need this yogurt in your life!

You’ll learn what your poop is actually made up of and you might be shocked to find out it’s not always just what you eat. We also look at pesticide use and GMO ingredients and think of ways you can reduce this in your daily life. Plus, we’re talking about treatment options and the possible side effects of SIBO medication.

Do you have SIBO or IBD? Have you ever tried making your own yogurt? How do you combat pesticide use in your daily life? Let me know in the comments!

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode

  • What medications, prescriptions, and herbal remedies are available to help treat SIBO
  • How you can take SIBO medication as preventative treatment
  • Why you should make homemade yogurt and how you can start
  • What leaky gut is and how you can start healing it
  • Why eating organic food is incredibly important while healing SIBO
  • How you can start making household swaps and homemade products
  • What some of the symptoms of starting SIBO medication are


“You regrow a brand new intestine every three months. Most of your poop is not food: it’s cells from the intestine.” (10:55)

“The health-conscious community has changed the state of our food industry so much that McDonald’s is investing in a clean meat source.” (14:17)

“By the nature of your GI not working optimally, you have a higher likelihood of picking up things because with your motility agent dysfunctional, you don’t have that natural protection.” (22:27)


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SIBO and Hormonal Imbalance

Lately, hormones have been on my mind.

I just finished recording a brand new Workshop training with Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis, ND about hormones, the gut, SIBO, and how it’s all connected.

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis really explained to me HOW exactly the gut can impact our hormones (and it was information I’d never heard before). If you want to get access to the Workshop, go here.

Hormones are much more than estrogen and testosterone – there are about 50 different hormones in the body, and each has a really important function. They control everything from mood to weight – and they can cause SIBO and other gut issues to get worse (or develop). But having SIBO or other gut issues can also lead to hormone imbalances. It’s a “chicken and the egg” scenario.

Hormone imbalance and gut issues – which came first? It’s a chicken and the egg scenario!

Here’s what’s clear: whether you’re a man or a woman, and no matter your age, you NEED to be thinking about your hormone health. And especially if you have SIBO, IBS, or ANY gut issues.

(And especially if you’ve had your gallbladder removed or have had gallbladder issues in the past.)

Ahead of the Workshop with Dr. Sandberg-Lewis, I wanted to share a few interview snippets from past discussions I’ve had with experts about hormones.

My goal is to get you thinking and open your idea to new perspectives about hormones and SIBO.

If you want to go further, please join us for the live Workshop on May 4th.

SIBO & Fertility – Dr. Stefani Hayes, ND

Shivan Sarna: “You do treat a lot of people with SIBO, and also, with fertility issues. Tell us how you have observed a relationship between those two if you would.”

Dr. Stefani Hayes: “I think the relationship came about over several years of practice, especially with a lot of my patients who had unexplained infertility, or fertility struggles from PCOS or endometriosis. A lot of them didn’t have GI issues, but some of them did.

Because a lot of my colleagues are experts in SIBO, we started trying SIBO tests on a lot of my patients, and surprisingly, many of them came up highly positive usually with a methane-type SIBO overgrowth, which was really surprising for us.

And a lot of them didn’t have the constipation pattern that a lot of methane-type SIBO does. But they often had had constipation as young adults or young kids, but had learned over the years how to manage it. And sometimes literally never really struggled with much GI stuff beside some occasional bloating.

But when we addressed the SIBO, it seemed to make a significant effect on pelvic bowl health and their women’s health.

The connection between SIBO & Fertility.

Some got pregnant on their own, naturally, and were able to hold their pregnancies and have sweet, little kiddos.

Others tolerated IVF a lot better, and were able to start ovulating on their own with PCOS, if they hadn’t before, or were able to, with endometriosis, there’s often times—endometriosis is really tricky, and so patients who had had multiple surgeries, and then it re-grew, I definitely saw sometimes after we balanced out the SIBO that the endometriosis would re-grow slower, or not at all.

We would just get a little bit longer window between those surgeries, so that those patients could have more options for trying to get pregnant.”

Shivan Sarna: “Why do you think that is?”

Dr. Stefani Hayes: “Because the small intestine does really overlay, not just the uterus, but over the top of the ovaries, and when I think about methane-type bacteria, it’s a pretty noxious gas.

And if I think about what that might be like, I imagine it would seep into the surrounding region. And for me, I like to have visuals of things that seems to me like a fog or a smog, if you will, that’s in that whole pelvic bowl.

And so again, it’s coming back to that smog—if the neighborhood is not very happy, the some other neighboring structures can really get affected too, in my perspective.”

Cortisol & SIBO – Dr. Mona Morstein, ND

Dr. Mona Morstein: “Cortisol is kind of like Goldie Locks with the bears. Cortisol needs the middle chair and the middle bowl of oatmeal.

If there’s not enough cortisol there is development of gut inflammation. And that’s a problem because from gut inflammation we can lose our protective mucus lining, we can start changing our microbiome, we can start breaking away the IGG immunity there and start reacting to what would necessarily shouldn’t react to and so forth.

But if you have too much cortisol for over time it’s also inflammatory to the lining of the intestine as well.

There are so many ways to work with people along that level of cortisol. Whether it’s getting counseling, addressing their sleep, their stress and relaxation – do they do journaling or gratitude, do they exercise, are they creative? Do they take time, you know to relax, do they get into nature?

Broad-based look at ways that people are feeling bad. We can also of course use homeopathy. I do that quite a lot with people.

Of course supplements such as nutrients that support adrenal hormone functioning, there are botanicals that support and help balance what we call adapter genes. If the cortisol is low it can raise it up, if it’s high it can lower it down.

And of course diet, right? What you eat and drink can be very supportive to adrenal healing or very problematic to adrenal healing.

We can also get into methyltetrahydrofolic law because the adrenal gland needs a lot of mentholated enzyme reactions to have it function well, so it’s a broad-based look at both, since we do know that there is inflammation with SIBO.

Whatever else may be happening in their life, if we’re trying to heal that intestinal lining, heal the lining, heal the leaky gut, heal the nerves having a proinflammatory state is going to work against us in that regard through the cortisol.”

SIBO, Your Hormones, & Weight  – Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis, ND

Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis: “Another really important thing is the “thyro-adrenal,” which is something I made up. Both the thyroid gland and the adrenal glands are so important in normalizing blood sugar, maintaining bone mass, helping with mood and energy and blood sugar, very, very important, and blood pressure as well.

Those glands are so important for the maintenance of normal function. And so often, in standard medicine, the only time you really look at the adrenals is when there’s 90% of their function gone. That’s called Addison’s disease. It’s very rare. It’s an autoimmune disease.

Or when a person has Cushing’s disease, which is when their stress hormone, cortisol levels are so high that everything goes haywire, and we can actually die from it. Very serious condition, which is a little more common than Addison’s.

But in naturopathic medicine and other forms of natural medicine, we like to look at the adrenals before they’re 90% gone because many people have a lot of dysfunction there, and you can’t really—in my book, you can’t really separate thyroid from adrenal. They work so closely together.

So that’s my suggestion is balance your adrenal and thyroid function, so that your blood sugar can normalize, so that you can lose the weight around your waist because that’s one of the better ways that we have of measuring abdominal fat or that apple fat.

The waist circumference for women, over 35-inches is too much. For men, over 40-inches is too much.

And so it’s easy enough to say, “Oh, lose that waist circumference. Bring it down. Just get to it.”

Well, that can be almost impossible. If your insulin levels are very high, and your DHEA levels are very low, and your cortisol is very high, that’s the worst group of hormonal levels that can lead to a waistline that just gets bigger and bigger.

You could lose weight all over your body. Your face might look amazing, but you can’t lose the weight around your waist. And that’s the weight that’s controlling the whole blood sugar issue, which causes GERD and causes SIBO and other digestive problems.

So the thyro-adrenal, if you would, gland is really important there. It’s just my way of letting my student doctors and my patients know that—it’s my way of thinking. It’s a little superficial to be treating somebody’s thyroid and ignoring their adrenal or vice versa. You have to look at both.”

SIBO & Hormone Balance

This blog isn’t meant to be comprehensive – there are plenty more ways SIBO and IBS interact with the hormones that I didn’t get a chance to cover in this post.

If you want to go deeper and really understand how gut health issues like SIBO and IBS can interact with your hormone levels, I hope you’ll attend the Workshop with Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis on May 4th.

The Workshop includes a 1-hour class on the link between the gut (and specifically the gallbladder) and your hormones. Then there will be 2 hours of live Q&A with Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis. We’re also adding new community discussion before and after the class to help you take your learning even deeper. (You don’t have to attend live, either – we always offer the full recording and transcript. You can even pre-submit your question.)

→ Get Your Ticket For The Workshop Here

You can also access this Workshop with the SIBO SOS™ Speaker Series. When you join the Speaker Series, you get access to 10 brand new Workshops and 7 exclusive bonuses for one low price. It’s like buying SIBO knowledge in bulk to save money! You can access the Speaker Series here. 

P.S. In the past, we’ve done expert Masterclasses – but starting now, Masterclasses are going to be Workshops. Why workshops? We want to highlight how interactive and action-oriented these events are. It’s not just listening or reading – it’s like being in a classroom with other people! We’ve added some new features to the Workshops, too – learn more here.

P.P.S. Our Workshops are taking what you already love and making them EVEN better, more hands-on, and more useful. I can’t wait. If the Workshop sounds like what you need, please join in here.

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SIBO, or Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth, is a condition where the good bacteria that grows in other parts of the gut migrate to the small intestine where it’s not supposed to be.

You’ll have symptoms of bloating, stomach pain, cramps, and, of course, gas.

The condition affects close to 60 million people across the United States, and guest, Dr. Mark Pimentel, and I have been chatting over the past year about what causes SIBO and how you can treat it.


Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

About Dr. Mark Pimentel

Dr. Mark Pimentel is the head of the Pimentel Laboratory and the Executive Director of the Medically Associated Science and Technology (MAST) program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center.

A leading specialist in studying the causes of SIBO, IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), and other microbiome related diseases, Dr. Pimentel has been instrumental in delivering treatments, tests, and classifications of these gut diseases.

Dr. Pimentel believes that a SIBO diagnosis is often overused as it can be a catch-all for many different types of GI disorders and that it’s important to get to the root cause of the issue before starting treatment.

We talk about why your tummy makes noise, even when you’re not hungry and why you should probably be avoiding lactose in your diet. We look at the correlation between SIBO and other gut issues with certain vitamins, minerals, and gasses in the body.

Do you suffer from bloating, especially after a meal? Is there a history of SIBO or other gut-related diseases in your family? Do you supplement with a daily probiotic?

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode

  • What some of the conditions that cause SIBO are
  • Why your tummy makes noise when you’re not hungry and what the migrating motor complex is
  • Why people with SIBO should steer clear of dairy products
  • What the relationship between SIBO, bacteria, and folate (iron) is
  • How methane contributes to weight gain and weight loss prevention
  • How you can incorporate probiotics in your diet when you have SIBO


“My job is to prove that you don’t have SIBO first but if you do, then we need to prove why you have SIBO.” (3:24)

“The association between IBS and SIBO is clear. I’d say that probably 70% of IBS is SIBO.” (5:26)

“No human on the planet can drink a gallon of milk without getting bloated, because we only have so much enzyme to break down the lactose.” (9:17)

“You have various layers of protection against the outside world. So your skin on the outside of your body is very non-permeable to ward off infections. However, the gut is very special because you want it to absorb things… but not everything, such as certain toxins or some patients have multiple chemical sensitivities.” (24:05)


Enroll for the latest Masterclass with Dr. Mark Pimentel, titled Cutting Edge Research

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Hope For Healing SIBO and IBS
Don’t give up! Here are the wise words that gave me hope in my own journey to heal SIBO.

Have you ever felt 100% hopeless about your gut health?

Especially when you’ve seen multiple doctors and specialists…

Tried this diet and that…

Tested positive, then negative, then positive again…

I get it! At one point I felt a real sense of hopelessness around my own SIBO and IBS.

What changed?

First, I took responsibility for my own health. I stopped looking for a doctor to fix me and started trying to figure out how i could heal myself.

Second – I immersed myself in as much information as I could! Everything I learned was like a little nugget of hope. Some things I applied right away (and had BIG results). Other things I filed away for later on.

I don’t feel hopeless anymore – I feel empowered.

I want that for you too. So today, I’m sharing some of my favorite nuggets of hope with you!

I hope these inspire you to keep learning and never, ever give up!

Dr. Mona Morstein, ND: People Get Better

Dr. Mona Morstein: “There’s been a lotta people very poorly treated with SIBO. It’s not necessarily that SIBO is this totally impossible disease to treat. It just means it’s one of, by far, the more complicated ones, which is why, you need to do it in a very step-by-step fashion, addressing all of the components that need to heal in the gut; but when it’s done that way. I know, people get better! For sure! Absolutely! The majority get better.”

Riley Wimminger, MScN: It’s A Marathon

Riley Wimminger: “I think my biggest thing that I always tell people is that it’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint. And to have this concept in your mind that you’re just going to take an antibiotic, and then you’re going to take a prokinetic, and everything is going to be healed, maybe – maybe, you’ll have great results happen. But that’s just not what I’ve seen in most people.

So, don’t feel discouraged when that stuff doesn’t work for you. Just take it at the pace you can and start uncovering what else is going on and be patient with your body. And there will be ups and downs. But ultimately, I really see that, a lot of people, they have this upward trend. It maybe looks like this, but it goes up eventually as long as you stick with it and be patient with yourself.”

Dr. Stefani Hayes, ND: Look At The Bigger Picture

Dr. Stefani Hayes: “We think about SIBO as a chronic illness, like diabetes or something like that, that it has to be managed for potentially a lifetime. There’s every once in a while sometimes the miracle cure, one treatment and they’re better forever. But most individuals, it’s a lifetime’s worth of management, whatever that means, if it’s a modified diet or every few years, getting a re-treatment or just being conscious of the decisions and choices they make, know about some area of weakness for them, and could potentially be an area of weakness for their children.

And so just watching that and working on long-term management, I think, is where we often go.

And I think then it’s a little more empowering rather than disempowering because if the self-expectations and the negative self-talk that can come in when—cheats on the diet, it’s about finding that sweet spot where you live your life, and you enjoy your life, and you don’t struggle with the symptoms whether they be the typical IBS-type symptoms or if they show up differently like my patients have with pelvic pain or menstrual irregularities or fertility struggles.”

Dr. Michael Ruscio, DC: Reframe How You Think About Chronic Conditions

Dr. Michael Ruscio: “And we were talking specifically about how IBS is a chronic condition that has a propensity towards relapse – which is true. But what the public will go to with that understanding is “Oh, my God! This is a chronic condition. I’m never going to be able to get rid of them my entire life.” That’s not really the case.

What more so is the reality is that you can go from having IBS and from having SIBO and feeling awful—being bloated, having constipation or diarrhea and some of these associated symptoms that go along with that like insomnia or fatigue or brain fog – and then you can start feeling way better. You may have occasional times when you flare a little bit. But the example I used with Dr. Siebecker when we were talking on the phone the other day was if you had a bad knee injury in college, every once in a while, your knee may start to ache, you’ve got to do some stretches, you’ve got to do some exercises. It’s not a huge deal.

The same thing with your gut. You may have a flare every once in a while. Not a huge deal! We’re all human. There’s therapies we can use to quell that flare. It doesn’t mean anything is wrong or broken or you’re in a dire situation.”

Trudy Scott, CN: Be An Archaeologist

Trudy Scott: “There’s no magic solution. There’s no “You’ve got SIBO. This is the protocol that you need to do.” You need to try this. And if it works, great. If it doesn’t, you try this. Or you try various different permutations.

I mentioned my diet is not exactly the same as someone else’s diet who has SIBO. You may need to try LDN. It may not work for you. You may try tryptophan, and it may work for you. People will often have this fear of starting something or having to be almost a human guinea pig.

I remember you talking about being like an archaeologist, digging and trying to find solutions.”

Don’t Give Up!

Dr. Allison Siebecker, ND told me that it usually takes about four years for her patients to really figure out how to manage SIBO and IBS, so that they’re not having their lives run by their SIBO.

Learning that was a relief in some ways and a real bummer in other ways. Of course, SIBO and IBS are really obnoxious conditions. We want to get better right away! But once I developed a “long-term” perspective, it gave me peace.

It is so helpful to say, “Yes, this is a chronic condition. This is something that I need to manage.” Once I tried that on as a concept, it made me less anxious because I realized that it was just a new way of being. It wasn’t my preferred way of being, but it was a new way of being that if I at least embraced it, and took the pressure off.

That’s why my company is actually called Chronic Condition Rescue because we are dealing with these chronic conditions (and you really do need to be rescued, or you need to rescue yourself).

The Way Forward For SIBO & IBS

I’ve been where you are right now – and I made it to the other side. Sure – SIBO and IBS are conditions I’ll live with forever, but I’m not hopeless. I’m empowered.

I want to guide you to the other side too – it is my calling in life to help other people with SIBO & IBS get relief.

Here’s how I can help you right now: The 2019 SIBO SOS™ Speaker Series. 

To be honest – I wish I had named this the “SIBO Solutions Series” – because that’s what the 10 SIBO experts teaching are doing: sharing solutions for relief from SIBO. 

We have someone to cover every topic I have found to be vital to healing from SIBO – parasites, hormones, root causes, probiotics, candida, the brain-gut connection, and more. It’s not just “theory” – it’s real information you can put to use right now. 

Every month we have a new expert speaker who teaches the Masterclass and then answers YOUR questions at a live Q&A. 

Because SIBO and IBS are chronic conditions, you need continuos information.

It took me 4+ years to learn all of this – but you’re getting it all in just 10 months. (That’s the benefit of having someone who has been through it all as your guide.)

We’ve already had 3 of the speakers present (if you join the series now, you can immediately access those so you can watch whenever you want) and 7 more to come. Not to mention TONS of bonus classes, Q&As and other resources.

(Plus we are adding more bonuses all the time – it’s our way of telling you we appreciate you!)

This is your last chance to join the Speaker Series at this price and with the easy payment plan.

I’ve been where you are right now – and I want to help you get the answers you need to get relief, and GET YOUR LIFE BACK FROM SIBO!!

Won’t you join us? This is LAST CHANCE to join with the payment plan.

>> Join the Speaker Series Here <<

sibo course

SIBO, an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine, is something often overlooked by medical practitioners, but it’s a condition that is getting the spotlight more and more often these days. In fact, many physicians have specialized in SIBO because they themselves suffered in the past but never had real access to help. I’m talking with my personal SIBO specialist and world-renowned doctor, Dr. Allison Siebecker, about how she started offering SIBO treatment, as well as more insight into what SIBO actually is.

Or listen on your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | TuneIn

About Dr. Allison Siebecker

Dr. Siebecker believes she has had SIBO since she was only 5 years old, when she was originally diagnosed with IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). Though she followed medical advice for many years, her symptoms never got better, leading her to study naturopathic medicine. When this didn’t yield the help she wanted, Dr. Siebecker knew she needed to figure out the answers to SIBO for herself.

IBS is the #1 gastrointestinal disorder in the world with over 20% of the population suffering from it – and SIBO is the biggest contributing cause of it, but IBS isn’t the only disease associated with SIBO. We’re looking at how our guts are made up and what a properly working intestinal tract should do. We also talk about leaky gut, whether SIBO is a serious disease or not, and how long it’s going to take to cure your body of SIBO.

Have you been diagnosed with SIBO? Do you eat a lot of carbohydrates? How are you prioritizing SIBO treatment in your daily life? Let me know in the comments!

This podcast brought to you by:

In This Episode

  • How the intestinal tract is supposed to work and what it really looks like
  • How leaky gut is related to the gut and other parts of the body
  • What the symptoms of SIBO are, how they differ from IBS, and what other diseases are linked to SIBO
  • What tests you should ask your doctor to do if you suspect you have SIBO
  • How serious SIBO is, what causes it, and how long it takes to treat symptoms
  • Why diet alone won’t completely cure SIBO as the bacteria overgrowth needs to be removed completely


“When we have SIBO, all of our digestion and absorption can be messed up and that is a lot of suffering and problems.” (3:02)

“If digestion is disordered, it can lead to so many other problems in the body.” (14:16)

“The thing about SIBO diets is that there’s no really one right way to approach the reduction of the carbohydrates because the right way would be to remove them all if we wanted to have no symptoms at all. But that wouldn’t be good, because we need carbohydrates in our diet.” (27:32)


Find out more about SIBO on Dr. Siebecker’s Website

Join Dr. Allison Siebecker’s Masterclass


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Get access to the complete SIBO SOS™ course catalog

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In today’s post I’m getting REALLY real (and vulnerable) – talking about a subject that’s hard for many people to broach: depression and anxiety.

Listen – I didn’t want to accept I had Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (so not sexy), or Lyme Disease (from a bug!) so you can imagine my reaction to even considering depression & anxiety as factors in my health.

Didn’t wanna go there…

But that’s why this topic is SO important (and why I’m sharing my own story). Depression, anxiety, and gut health are all linked (in big and little ways).

Today, I’m going to share my OWN story and experiences, and then I’ll share excerpts from discussions I’ve had with various gut health experts about depression and anxiety.

The link between SIBO depression & anxiety
What’s the real connection between gut health and mental health?

My Story of Depression & Anxiety

First, I should say I never thought I had problems with anxiety or depression. I’m generally a happy and positive person.

But I didn’t realize until I got my neurotransmitters balanced how whack-a-doodle-do they were. They were off!

I had genetic testing that showed I had some imbalances in serotonin and dopamine. My practitioner prescribed low dose naltrexone (LDN) (not an antidepressant – but it can help balance dopamine levels).

It changed my life!

Like I said – I’ve always been a happy person. But my entire life I’ve struggled with a feeling of anxiousness, which I thought was normal. It would come and go. I would walk to that edge. And it was uncomfortable.

But I thought it was normal.

With the right neurotransmitter treatment, my whole entire being has transformed. I don’t feel despair anymore. Of course, if something horrible happened, I would.

But I don’t live on that edge anymore. And I feel like, “Oh, my gosh! Is this how people that don’t have neurotransmitter imbalance live all the time?”

I share this so that you know: it can happen to ANYONE. And the signs aren’t always the ones we think of first (like unable to get out of bed, crying all the time…).

What helped me might not help you – but I hope something in these next excerpts WILL help you.

Dr. Lisa Shaver, ND, MSOM, LAc on Neurotransmitters

Dr. Lisa Shaver: So, absolutely, I would say there could be a link between addictions to anything—addictions to food, addictions to watching TV, addictions to social media, gaming online, to sex, to working out…

Shivan Sarna: Shopping…

Dr. Lisa Shaver: …shopping, absolutely, because of malabsorption of amino acids which feed our neurotransmitters. And neurotransmitters is what we need to feel balanced inside and balanced in the world out there. It helps us interact with us and interact with the outer world.

Shivan Sarna: And who sits around and thinks about “Hey, well, my quadriceps are doing great. My biceps are doing great. How are my neurotransmitters today?” No one talks that way.

Dr. Lisa Shaver: Even the word “neurotransmitter,” people are like, “I think I’ve heard of that before. What does that mean? How do you go about it?”

But I’ve done what I’d call targeted amino acid therapy or neurotransmitter balancing, gosh, for 18 years. And it’s so easy. You just use basically the breakdown of nutrition. You’ll be able to feel whether your balance that day and if you’re taking the right dose that day.

And so every person, again, individualized medicine. You could have a big, burly guy with severe depression and severe anxiety take a very low dose, or you could have a petite person with mild symptoms really need to go high on their dose because it all has to do with the internal biochemistry and our receptor years being able to take that signal and tell the brain and tell the body, “This is what you need.”

So, it’s individualized. You can’t have a standard dose for every person.

Dr. Stefani Hayes, ND, LAc on The SIBO-Depression Link

Shivan Sarna: You were talking about how you help people with SIBO, who have—it manifests also some depression and some anxiety, it’s part of the cascade. What do you think is causing that and what do you do for them? How can we help somebody today who maybe feels anxious or has bouts of depression that could be linked to their SIBO? What’s your take on all of that?

Dr. Stefani Hayes: As a naturopath, we’re trained in understanding the physiology of the body, and thinking about pathology along those lines. And what we know is that a large percentage, over three-quarters of our immune system lives around our gut. And so when there’s some dysfunction with the membrane of our intestine, then some big molecules can come through that can be inflammatory to the immune system, and also across that blood/brain barrier, or irritate the blood/brain barrier in a way that’s maladaptive.

And also, if the body can’t fully break down, let’s say, the amino acids, into the components where they can be turned into neurotransmitters, that can be really hard for depression and anxiety.

For me, it’s about finding that middle ground between helping with the inflammation component, so if it’s a neurotoxic effect, like often times, we talk about gluten for some individuals, and depending on their genetics, gliadin, if it’s not broken down well can be neurotoxic, so then an inflammatory component.

And sometimes just treating the SIBO, tightening up those gap junctions in the small intestine, really decreasing that inflammation in that whole region can help their brain because their body is not under this onslaught of inflammation can help their immune system for autoimmune conditions, where their body is confused.

Again, that smog, a lot goes on when the bulk of your immune system is living in that smog, and then it can mistake, it can attack the small intestine itself because one of the main theories about SIBO is that it’s an autoimmune condition.

It can attack the thyroid, it can attack the joints. And also, thinking about how can we minimize some of these chronic conditions, other chronic conditions, autoimmune conditions, that are really debilitating.

But then the other piece of how do you optimize because the main way to really help people with their products that build amino acids is to hopefully help them break down their foods well for that, or give them supplements, or even if they’re taking pharmaceutical medications, you want to make sure that they’re able to absorb them and assimilate them and get them to the brain in a way that’s efficient. And you can’t do that unless the small intestine is nice and healing.

Trudy Scott, CN on The IBS-SIBO-Anxiety Trio

Shivan Sarna: I know Dr. Siebecker and I have spoken about that, about how people—I mean, it’s pretty well-known if you’ve been studying your SIBO or depending on where you are in it, or IBS, that it is associated with anxiety. And like which came first, the anxiety or the SIBO/IBS, or the IBS/SIBO came first and then the anxiety…?

Trudy Scott: Yes. I’ve got two. And these are quite old ones which is interesting. When I wrote my book in 2011, I didn’t really know much about SIBO. But I did know that it was an issue for me. I didn’t actually have a name for it. I knew it was these digestive issues.

Well, the book came out in 2011. But it had to be delivered in 2009. So this was as of 2009—not ’09, 2010. But I did find two studies then. And these still apply. One was a paper. It was a published in 2008. It’s called State & Trait Anxiety and Depression in Patients Affected by Gastrointestinal Diseases.

And what they found is that “people with digestive complaints such as IBS, food allergies and sensitivities”—and they actually used the term “small intestinal bacterial overgrowth,” but the word SIBO wasn’t really well-known in those days. I didn’t learn about it in school—“the small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and ulcerative colitis frequently suffer from anxiety and depression.

And then, this other one which was published in 2001, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Anxiety and Depression: What are the Links?

So, this is before there were the studies connecting IBS with SIBO. Now we know that a large proportion of people who have IBS, it is actually SIBO. But what they find in this particular study was that 50% to 90% of people with IBS who visited a doctor, all their digestive issues also had panic disorder, general anxiety disorder, social phobia and even post-traumatic stress disorder, and major depression.

So, there’s the research there. And now, we’ve got newer research that I know you and Dr. Siebecker has talked about. But it’s pretty interesting that this research has been around a long time.

Shivan Sarna: I’m just so glad we have concrete numbers on it to help people who are not believers. It really does help. The rest of us sometimes don’t need the double blind study. We get it. It’s there, it’s there.

Niki Gratrix on ACEs, Trauma, and SIBO

Shivan Sarna: So what if I’m just getting through my life, I’m getting through my day. I’m struggling. I’m hanging in there. I have some joy. I’ve got some days off where I actually relaxed. My gut is not in great shape. I don’t feel traumatized. I mean I’m stressed, but isn’t everybody stressed?

What should we be thinking about in a new way to help ourselves because I think most people are operating like that—actually if they’re lucky. They’re lucky to be operating like that, right? That is a champagne problem right there. How can we dive deeper?


Niki Gratrix: So, “stress” is a widely used word. And we’re going to define more closely what we mean by the word “stress” and dive into that. But what most people don’t realize is, when you’re stressed, most people just think of that as maybe they’re stressed in their mind, and actually you are truly a stressed organism when you have stress. The whole body responds to stress.

And the issue is that most people don’t realize, when you look at the stress literature about adult stress, you use that word, most people kind of think about having too much to do, too many emails, the school runs, that is somewhat stressful. But what people don’t realize is that most of your stress response is actually set up in childhood.

In the stress research, when you have an external stressor, something big like maybe losing a job, or a job stress, the big things that can happen when you’re an adult, it’s not the event itself, it’s the perception and how we respond to it. The problem is that one person actually deals with that fine, and another person, they’ll tell you that “I had this stressful event, and that’s when all my gut problems started” or “That’s when I got this chronic illness. I had this stressful event.”

The point is that you have a bit of stressor at the time. But most likely, it was caused by early life experiences because someone else has had the same stress as you and didn’t catch a physical illness.

And bear in mind that you’re not just stressed in your mind, you are a stressed organism. Your whole body is responding to stress. And we’ll talk about that a little bit more.

If early life stress is what is setting us up for our resilience to stress in adulthood, how sort of prevalent is early life stress?

I’m going to talk about the Adverse Childhood Event Studies which were studies of early life stress in children where they were looking over 17,500 adults. It was done by the CDC and Kaiser Permanente, sort of mainstream researchers. It was a massive study of that many people. And they basically looked at the correlation between the amount of early life stress and the onset of chronic complex illness in adulthood.

The researchers said that, from the time the trauma is happening in the child, they are marinating in inflammatory cytokines from the date the trauma happens.

So, when you get a physical expression of gut dysbiosis, you develop SIBO, you develop whatever digestive issues, it probably started 20 years before. It was cumulative over time. And then, you probably had a trigger event, and then you had a more of a physical manifestation of symptoms.

Dr. Steven Sandberg-Lewis, ND, DHANP Explains Depression & SIBO “Cross Talk”

Shivan Sarna: I know this is a rabbit hole, but I’m okay with this because I really think a lot of people are dealing with this. Are they called SSRI? Is that what they’re called?

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis: That’s the original group, and now, we have the SSNRIs also that affect not just serotonin but norepinephrine as well.

Shivan Sarna: So is the SSNRI, is that Wellbutrin?

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis: I believe so, yes. So those things modulate serotonin receptors as well. At least they affect the reuptake of serotonin from the interneuronic space, and make a stronger serotonin effect.

Shivan Sarna: Could this possibly be one of the connections between the brain and gut? Is this where they’re saying that people—this is such a reach, but people with the altered microbiome could be more prone to depression and mood disorders? Is that the same deal?

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis: It’s a real thing. It is true that even—yes. Digestive problems can definitely cause or add to depression and anxiety through many mechanisms—which I love to get into if you want to, but maybe you don’t want them. There are some mechanisms, but we’ll try to make it more practical.

Shivan Sarna: Would it also be the reverse? So you are depressed, and that leads to more digestive problems. You have digestive problems, that can lead to you to being more depressed. That’s depressing. That whole thing that I just said is depressing.

Dr. Sandberg-Lewis: We call it crosstalk. It goes both directions—from the central nervous system, to the gut, and the enteric nervous system, and the enteric nervous system is interacting very intimately with the microbiota that make up the yeast, the bacteria, the viruses that make up the GI microbiome.

No Shame  – Just Information

Since my own journey with these issues, I’ve realized that the stigma around these conditions causes many people to suffer for YEARS in silence.

That’s got to stop. No more shame!

So where do you start if you want to learn more?

First things first – you should always talk to your doctor or practitioner. Every situation is unique and you need someone who can make specialized recommendations for you.

But I also have a quick resource to share: 21st Century Solutions to Depression eBook.

This is a free eBook produced by GreenMedInfo that I found helpful personally. It has lots of new information on depression and anxiety that I hadn’t heard before.

I’d also love to know what our experience with SIBO, gut health, and depression anxiety has been. I think open dialogue on this topic is the MOST important thing we can to get rid of the stigma and get more people the help they deserve. Please leave a comment and share your thoughts!